Football Hooliganism

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this first part of a two-part special on football hooliganism, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by special guest Cass Pennant - former West Ham United Inter City Firm member who later became an author and film producer. They discuss director Ian Stuttard (known as “Butch”) and his 1985 groundbreaking documentary 'Hooligan', which challenged the stereotype of hooligans. Cass explains how Stuttard earned access by spending months with the ICF without a camera, building trust, and later filming from inside the action. The episode also covers the Thatcher-era context, the film’s controversial release and its wider impact on how 'firms' were understood. We finish the episode with Cass reflecting on Stuttard’s wider documentary career, their later partnership in a production company, and Stuttard’s lasting legacy. Join us next week for the history of football hooliganism. You can listen to this episode ad-free over on our Patreon - Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was. You will also get access to our World Cup countdown, magazine retrospectives and bonus episodes as well as a monthly Q&A with Rob and Jonathan. 00:38 Introducing Cass Pennant and the Documentary 03:21 How Ian Stuttard Got Access to the ICF 11:08 Trust Test: A Year With No Camera 15:28 1985 Context: Thatcher’s Britain, Youth Culture, and Misread ‘Casuals’ 24:19 Inside the Footage: Street Fighting, Early Video Cameras, and Codes of Conduct 26:23 Butch’s War-Correspondent Mindset 33:22 Back in the Studio: How ‘Hooligan’ Got Its Unfiltered Authenticity 34:02 Pre-Broadcast Panic: Calls to Ban the Film & Fears of Copycats 40:18 From Gangs to ‘Firms’ 45:33 Inside Whitehall: Giving Evidence to the Popplewell Inquiry 54:59 Why It Faded: Fans Wanting Out, Politics, Policing & the Premier League Era 58:42 Stuttard's Legacy: Funeral Reflections, Final Bucket List Match & Lasting Impact Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was When It Was, the football history podcast. This week we're focussing on the 1984-85 footballing season - arguably the bleakest time in English football history - that changed the game forever. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper begin the first of two episodes covering the violence, tragedy, and upheaval of this period and the wider context of football hooliganism in the first half, whilst the second half of part one pays tribute to the horrific Bradford Fire that claimed 56 lives 40 years ago. Explore gripping firsthand accounts, the reactions of key figures, and the societal and institutional issues that plagued the sport, leading to safety measures and ultimately, a transformation in football culture. Join us on Friday as we are joined by Tony Evans to talk about the Heysel tragedy that happened at the end of May in 1985. 00:00 Introduction to the Podcast 01:09 Reflecting on the 1984-85 Season 02:47 The Bradford Fire Tragedy 04:00 Football's Decrepit Stadiums 06:31 Chelsea vs. Sunderland: Milk Cup Semi-Final Chaos 12:36 Luton vs. Millwall: FA Cup Violence 26:35 Birmingham vs. Leeds: Championship Decider Mayhem 29:10 Fans Fight Back and Prolonged Chaos 30:52 Medieval Fortress and Perimeter Fences 31:59 Racism and Aggression in Football Culture 33:15 Introduction to the Bradford Fire 35:04 The Start of the Fire and Initial Reactions 36:16 Rapid Escalation and Desperate Attempts to Escape 38:20 Heartbreaking Personal Accounts and Immediate Aftermath 47:16 Investigations and Controversies 50:57 Negligence and Legal Consequences 57:30 Broader Implications and Future Changes 59:24 Conclusion and Preview of Next Episode Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.