It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

Welcome back to It Was What It Was the football history podcast. In today’s episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper bring this Graham Taylor series to a close with the Oslo qualifier that defined his reign: a chaotic, tactically muddled 2–0 loss to Norway at the peak of their ‘golden age’, captured in painful detail by The Impossible Job. Unpacking Taylor’s mounting stress, tabloid caricature and “no‑win” selection calls—especially the dilemma of persisting with an undercooked Paul Gascoigne—before explaining how the back-three plan collapsed, England’s structure unravelled, and Norway’s alertness (including a quick free kick) punished them. The episode breaks down England’s chaotic structure, Norway’s tactical calm under Egil “Drillo” Olsen, and Taylor’s famous touchline outbursts, before tracing the fallout: “Norse Manure” headlines, concerns the players had stopped responding, and a demoralising US tour. England briefly revive by beating Poland, but lose in Rotterdam and, despite winning 7–1 in San Marino after conceding almost instantly, miss out as the Netherlands win in Poland. They assess Taylor’s broader legacy, his misfortune with timing and player form, and his later rehabilitation at Watford. 01:51 Norway’s Golden Generation 04:51 Tabloid Mockery Era 06:11 Psychology and Pressure 08:18 The Gaza Fitness Dilemma 18:30 Paranoia and Tactical Switch 22:50 System Collapse in Oslo 25:57 Quick Free Kick Nightmare 29:41 Norway Strike Again 30:32 Tabloid Backlash 32:07 Tactics And Trust 35:18 Bigger Picture Failings 42:56 USA Tour Fallout 43:49 Last Chance Qualifiers 45:36 San Marino Shock 48:28 Reassessing the Taylor Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. In today's episode, co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson continue Graham Taylor’s England story as the 1994 World Cup qualifying begins to wobble, with Paul Gascoigne’s talent and volatility dominating the narrative. They examine how Taylor’s pragmatic, direct style—shaped by lower-league realities and later linked (often unfairly) to FA long-ball doctrine—collided with more technical European approaches, and how internal battles involving Charles Hughes and data pioneer Charles Reap poisoned the backdrop. England’s campaign lurches through a Norway draw at Wembley after a late stunner, a Gascoigne-inspired win over Turkey, and a damaging 2–2 draw with the Netherlands featuring an undetected elbow and a late penalty. With Gascoigne returning in a mask, England then stumble in a hostile Poland away match and escape with a late equaliser, before Taylor’s brutal “headless chickens” verdict leaves his team heading to Oslo under growing pressure. 00:24 Setting the Scene 03:08 Taylor’s Pragmatic Roots 06:50 Pressing vs Possession 10:04 Charles Hughes and the Winning Formula 13:55 Reap vs Hughes Fallout 19:31 Norway’s Long Ball Irony 21:59 Back to Qualifying Hopes 24:10 Gazza’s Norway Controversy 26:50 Taylor’s Gaza Dilemma 28:22 Norway Opener Heartbreak 30:53 Turkey Win and Dependence 32:53 Too Honest With Press 40:12 Dutch Clash at Wembley 44:13 Mask Return and Mania 45:52 Poland Chaos and Critique 49:03 Headless Chickens Finale Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue on from last week’s episode with Jan Fjortoft to delve into how things went wrong for Graham Taylor during his time as England manager. In this first part of a three part series on Graham Taylor (following our episode with Fjortoft) we take a look at the high of Italia ’90 to the early warning signs of Graham Taylor’s troubled England reign, setting up the wider story of his eventual downfall. Central to the episode is Paul Gascoigne’s rise into “Gaza mania,” the off-field chaos and disciplinary problems that followed, including the 1991 FA Cup final knee rupture and subsequent setbacks. Taylor struggled to manage both the player and the circus around him. England qualified for Euro 1992 but drew twice, lost to Sweden and Taylor’s substitution of Gary Lineker became emblematic as tabloid ridicule culminate in a reputational collapse for Taylor. 01:05 The Impossible Job Era 07:39 Referees And Rotterdam 12:47 Italia 90 Reality Check 20:02 Gaza Mania Begins 25:31 Euro Qualifiers Begin 28:24 Ireland Away Selection 30:08 Taylor Press Tightrope 35:48 Cup Final Knee Rupture 41:46 Euro 92 Sweden Turning Point 42:55 Lineker Sub Controversy 47:50 Fitness Gap And Refuelling 49:32 Turnip Taylor Tabloid Sting Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by a very special returning guest - Jan Fjørtoft! In this episode, we will explore Norway’s remarkable rise in the early 1990s and their famous 2–0 win over Graham Taylor’s England in 1993. Fjørtoft explains how Egil “Drillo” Olsen took a previously struggling national team and built belief through a disciplined, direct style, carefully defined roles, and detailed match analysis using hand-written stats and video. The episode breaks down the key tactical choices that unsettled England, revisits both Norway goals, and follows the qualifier run that took Norway to their first World Cup since 1938. Norway will return to the World Cup this summer for the first time since 1998. This episode will be followed by a three part special on Graham Taylor. 01:12 Norway before the rise 04:09 Olsen arrives and stirs 06:47 Direct football philosophy 14:31 Stats and analysis 20:05 Defined roles and system 23:40 Beating England 28:12 Tactical switch 31:33 Gascoigne fitness factor 32:50 Olsen’s Selection Mind Games 37:20 Two Goals Breakdown 42:41 Road to USA 94 Sealed 45:45 Poland Night and Wild Celebrations 48:46 Heroes Welcome in Norway 52:04 World Cup Heat Prep Fiasco 59:59 Egil Olsen Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take you back to the 1966 FIFA World Cup. On home soil in England, the hosts claimed their first and only World Cup title. Captain Bobby Moore marshalled the side with composure, while Geoff Hurst rose to immortality with a historic hat-trick in the final. England’s triumph, sealed in a dramatic victory over West Germany, remains one of the most iconic moments in football history and the nations greatest footballing day. You can listen to the full episode on Patreon, along with the below privileges: BONUS EDITIONS Exclusive deep dives, specials & extended conversations from one-off specials to extra episodes that expand on our weekly free shows, you’ll get fresh, members-only content - including our “Bonus Editions” strand where Rob and Jonathan go deeper into football’s biggest stories and hidden histories. WORLD CUP WEDNESDAYS! Our countdown to 2026 - every tournament revisited Join Rob and Jonathan as they walk through every World Cup from 1930 to today, exploring the drama, evolution, legends, controversies and cultural impact of each tournament. RETRO MAGAZINE COLLECTION Flicking through the archives of classic football culture A nostalgic series diving into the pages of Shoot! and other retro football magazines - revisiting the stars, forgotten features, and football fandom of decades past. MONTHLY LIVE Q&A WITH ROB & JONATHAN Your chance to ask two of football’s leading writers anything. Submit your questions about recent episodes, football history, their journalism, or upcoming projects — and hear their answers in our LIVE members-only Q&A. JOIN THE IT WAS COMMUNITY Connect with fellow fans & nostalgia lovers Meet other members who share your passion for football history. Be part of the conversation and help shape the future of the show. What’s included Exclusive content Q&As Ad-free episodes Private community Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by an extraudinary guest - Clyde Best. An absolute pioneer to the game, born in Bermuda, Clyde would become one of the first black players in First Division football in England. His new film, ‘Transforming the Beautiful Game: The Clyde Best Story’ will be shown for a week at Sadler’s Wells East from 25th March. In this episode, Clyde recounts arriving in England as a teenager, getting lost at West Ham station and being taken in by the Charles family. He reflects on his rise at West Ham, getting his debut against Arsenal under Ron Greenwood in 1969 and playing alongside the likes of Bobby Moore, Geoff Hurst and Martin Peters. Clyde talks of the his Bermuda upbringing, national team breakthrough and the influence that his father had on him. Best reflects on being one of the first prominent black players in English football, enduring racist abuse and an acid-attack threat and playing against Pelé. He also discusses NASL moves to Tampa Bay and Portland Timbers and the inspiration he provided players such as Ian Wright. 01:29 Lost at Heathrow 03:23 The Charles Family 06:59 Bermuda Beginnings 10:20 West Ham Dream 13:20 Ron Greenwood Impact 15:22 Fast Track Debut 18:35 Breaking Barriers 24:06 Facing Racism 31:03 Scoring Against Pelé 35:20 Leaving West Ham for the NASL 37:17 American Soccer Showmanship 43:01 Legacy as a Pioneer 46:57 Honorary Doctorate 49:44 His love for West Ham Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this final part three of our three-part special on Colombian football and the tragedy of Andrés Escobar. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper tell the story of the 1994 World Cup and its devastating aftermath. This episode explores the immense and impossible pressure placed on the Colombian squad, from death threats delivered to hotel room TVs, to the chaos of a nation in civil war pinning all its hopes on eleven men. The discussion covers the Romania defeat, the fateful own goal against the USA, and the senseless murder of Andrés Escobar outside a nightclub. Rob and Jonathan also examine the legacy of Escobar 'the gentleman of football' and his remarkable fiancée Pamela Cascada, before reflecting on Colombia's long road to recovery and redemption. You can listen to this episode ad-free over on our Patreon - Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was. You will also get access to our World Cup countdown, magazine retrospectives and bonus episodes as well as a monthly Q&A with Rob and Jonathan. 01:00 Andrés Escobar's Posthumous Column in El Tiempo 01:55 Setting the Scene: The Narco State & Pablo Escobar's Death 06:55 Pablo Escobar's Deep Love of Football 10:55 Francisco Maturana on the Narcos: "Like an Octopus" 16:30 Andrés Escobar: El Caballero del Fútbol 20:25 A Move to AC Milan & The Burden of Representing Colombia 23:30 Higuita's Exclusion & The President's Calculations 26:00 The Romania Defeat: Hagi's Moment of Magic 27:45 Death Threats, Kidnappings & Maturana in Tears 33:00 The USA Game: Playing Under the Shadow of Snipers 35:30 The Own Goal & Colombia's Elimination 37:15 The Murder of Andrés Escobar 41:00 Who Killed Escobar? The Galón Brothers & the Cover-Up 44:45 The State Funeral & Pamela Cascada's Dignity 48:15 The Aftermath: Colombia's Slow Road to Redemption 51:45 2014 & The Restoration of Colombian Football Pride 54:15 Closing Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this sneak peek to a bonus episode of It Was What It Was on Patreon, hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by Professor Matthew Brown (University of Bristol) to deepen the series on Andrés Escobar by tracing how Colombian history, political violence and the drug economy intersect with football. Brown rejects Gabriel García Márquez’s claim that three events defined 20th-century Colombia, while explaining why the 5–0 win over Argentina in 1993 became a tipping point for football as a national identity marker. The discussion covers football’s emergence alongside other sporting cultures, the role of sport after the 1948 Bogotazo and during La Violencia, and Colombia’s later shift into guerrilla conflict and cocaine trafficking. They explore cartel money’s social and sporting influence, the effects of Pablo Escobar’s death and subsequent violence, the symbolic damage of Colombia’s 1994 World Cup collapse, Copa América 2001, and how the 2014 team helped build trust during negotiations leading to the 2016 peace deal, while noting ongoing violence tied to the illegal drug trade. You can listen to the full episode on Patreon On Tuesday, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson return to round off the Colombia series and bring that story to a close. On Wednesday, on Patreon only, the co-hosts continue the World Cup countdown series with an episode on the 1962 World Cup in Chile, looking back at the tournament and some of its key moments. Then on Friday, also on Patreon only, we look back at when Northern Ireland faced Italy in the 1958 World Cup qualifiers. With Northern Ireland preparing for their 2026 World Cup play-off semi-final against Italy, Rob and Jonathan revisit the meeting where Northern Ireland qualified for their first World Cup and discuss the background to Ireland’s football split in the 1950s. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this second part two of our three-part special on Colombian football and the tragedy of Andrés Escobar. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper dissect one of the greatest World Cup qualifying matches ever played: Colombia's stunning 5-0 victory over Argentina at El Monumental in Buenos Aires. This episode explores the dramatic buildup to the match, the hostile reception faced by the Colombian team, and the extraordinary performance that shocked the football world. The discussion then examines the dangerous euphoria that followed, as Colombia began to believe that they could win the 1994 World Cup, and the dark realities of the narco state. You can listen to this episode ad-free over on our Patreon - Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was. You will also get access to our World Cup countdown, magazine retrospectives and bonus episodes as well as a monthly Q&A with Rob and Jonathan. 01:39 Colombia's Mindset Before the Match & The Hostile Reception 04:07 The Lineup: Colombia vs Argentina at El Monumental 11:25 The Match Begins: Early Tension & Argentina's Miss 14:05 The Plane Incident: A Bizarre Moment at El Monumental 16:01 GOAL: Rincón Opens the Scoring 17:26 Maturana's Psychological Tactics at Half Time 18:05 GOAL: Asprilla Makes It 2-0 18:47 GOAL: Valencia Volleys In the Third 19:56 GOAL: Asprilla's Exquisite Curler Makes It 4-0 21:00 GOAL: Valencia Completes the Rout - 5-0 22:14 The Monumental Applauds Colombia Off the Pitch 24:32 The Celebrations: 100 Deaths & National Hysteria 30:55 "Now We're F***ed": The Burden of Expectation 33:19 World Champions Before the Tournament Begins 39:25 21 Friendlies & The Cash Grab 44:51 The Dark Side: Meeting With the Cali Cartel Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. We’ve just hosted our first live Patreon Q&A, where Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson answered questions directly from members, covering football history, stories from the game and much more. Here is a section from the conversation, watch and listen to the full episode only on Patreon. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this first part of our three-part special on Colombian football and the tragedy of Andrés Escobar. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore the extraordinary history of Colombian football leading up to the 1994 World Cup. This episode covers the intersection of football and narco-culture, Pablo Escobar's involvement in the sport, the tense rivalry with Argentina, and the dramatic road to qualification culminating in the legendary 5-0 victory at El Monumental. You can listen to this episode ad-free over on our Patreon - Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was. You will also get access to our World Cup countdown, magazine retrospectives and bonus episodes as well as a monthly Q&A with Rob and Jonathan. 01:39 The El Dorado League & Early Colombian Football 10:11 Francisco Maturana: The Dentist Who Revolutionised Colombian Football 19:02 Maturana's Influences: Total Football Meets South American Flair 27:43 Navigating Narco-Culture: Pablo Escobar 36:11 René Higuita: The Sweeper-Keeper & The Kidnapping 41:25 Building Rivalry: Colombia vs Argentina at Copa América 1993 48:12 World Cup Qualifying Begins: Asprilla's Controversies 54:03 The Road to Buenos Aires: Setting Up the Five-Nil Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We're on Patreon! As a treat to our loyal listeners, here's a sneak peek of what you'll be getting if you join the "It Was" Patreon community. This week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by author Bill Buford to round up their series on hooliganism. BONUS EDITIONS Exclusive deep dives, specials & extended conversations from one-off specials to extra episodes that expand on our weekly free shows, you’ll get fresh, members-only content - including our “Bonus Editions” strand where Rob and Jonathan go deeper into football’s biggest stories and hidden histories. WORLD CUP WEDNESDAYS! Our countdown to 2026 - every tournament revisited Join Rob and Jonathan as they walk through every World Cup from 1930 to today, exploring the drama, evolution, legends, controversies and cultural impact of each tournament. RETRO MAGAZINE COLLECTION Flicking through the archives of classic football culture A nostalgic series diving into the pages of Shoot! and other retro football magazines - revisiting the stars, forgotten features, and football fandom of decades past. MONTHLY LIVE Q&A WITH ROB & JONATHAN Your chance to ask two of football’s leading writers anything. Submit your questions about recent episodes, football history, their journalism, or upcoming projects — and hear their answers in our LIVE members-only Q&A. JOIN THE IT WAS COMMUNITY Connect with fellow fans & nostalgia lovers Meet other members who share your passion for football history. Be part of the conversation and help shape the future of the show. What’s included Exclusive content Q&As Ad-free episodes Private community Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this second part of our two-part special on football hooliganism, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper trace the roots of football violence from the 1890s through to its transformation into organised ‘firms’ in the 1960s, 70s and 80s. They discuss the origins of the word ‘hooligan’, early crowd disorder and FA crackdowns, and how post-war prosperity, youth subcultures, away travel and ‘taking ends’ helped create a new kind of fan conflict. The episode also covers the European and England-team flashpoints of the 1970s and 80s, the political and policing response to the Popplewell Report, with later links to post-Hillsborough reforms and why large-scale hooliganism declined. You can listen to this episode ad-free over on our Patreon - Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was. You will also get access to our World Cup countdown, magazine retrospectives and bonus episodes as well as a monthly Q&A with Rob and Jonathan. 01:39 Where the Word ‘Hooligan’ Comes From (1890s London) 04:03 Football Fever: Mass Crowds and Class Anxiety 12:17 What Early ‘Hooliganism’ Looked Like: Pitch Invasions & Crowd Control 17:43 Players Under Attack 20:25 Fan-on-Fan Violence Emerges & the Rise of Away Travel 22:08 Cup Finals, ‘Football Specials’ & Patronising Press Panic 27:27 Post-War: The 60s–70s Gangs Are Coming 29:02 Teddy Boys, Rock ’n’ Roll Panics & Mods vs Rockers 31:02 Merseyside: Away Travel & the Rise of Chanting 36:53 Taking Ends: Territory, Undercover Trouble & the New ‘Game’ 41:58 Europe & England Abroad: From Paris 1975 to Euro 1980 44:00 1980s Casuals, Designer Gear & Firms Arranging Fights 48:43 1985: Luton–Millwall, Heysel, Thatcher & the Popplewell Report 51:28 Aftermath: CCTV, ID Schemes & Taylor Report 53:50 Global Legacy: Ultras, Copycat Firms & Why Football Identity Endures Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this first part of a two-part special on football hooliganism, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by special guest Cass Pennant - former West Ham United Inter City Firm member who later became an author and film producer. They discuss director Ian Stuttard (known as “Butch”) and his 1985 groundbreaking documentary 'Hooligan', which challenged the stereotype of hooligans. Cass explains how Stuttard earned access by spending months with the ICF without a camera, building trust, and later filming from inside the action. The episode also covers the Thatcher-era context, the film’s controversial release and its wider impact on how 'firms' were understood. We finish the episode with Cass reflecting on Stuttard’s wider documentary career, their later partnership in a production company, and Stuttard’s lasting legacy. Join us next week for the history of football hooliganism. You can listen to this episode ad-free over on our Patreon - Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was. You will also get access to our World Cup countdown, magazine retrospectives and bonus episodes as well as a monthly Q&A with Rob and Jonathan. 00:38 Introducing Cass Pennant and the Documentary 03:21 How Ian Stuttard Got Access to the ICF 11:08 Trust Test: A Year With No Camera 15:28 1985 Context: Thatcher’s Britain, Youth Culture, and Misread ‘Casuals’ 24:19 Inside the Footage: Street Fighting, Early Video Cameras, and Codes of Conduct 26:23 Butch’s War-Correspondent Mindset 33:22 Back in the Studio: How ‘Hooligan’ Got Its Unfiltered Authenticity 34:02 Pre-Broadcast Panic: Calls to Ban the Film & Fears of Copycats 40:18 From Gangs to ‘Firms’ 45:33 Inside Whitehall: Giving Evidence to the Popplewell Inquiry 54:59 Why It Faded: Fans Wanting Out, Politics, Policing & the Premier League Era 58:42 Stuttard's Legacy: Funeral Reflections, Final Bucket List Match & Lasting Impact Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We're on Patreon! As a treat to our loyal listeners, here's a sneak peek of what you'll be getting if you join the "It Was" Patreon community. In a new Patreon series - Rob and Jonathan take a trip back through the World Cup! This will be dropping every Wednesday on Patreon - so we've gone with the imaginative title of World Cup Wednesdays! If you join, you'll also be getting ad-free main episodes, loads more bonus episodes, magazine retrospectives and Q&As with Rob and Jonathan. Plus you'll be supporting the show and connecting with the "It Was..." community. Patreon subscribers get: BONUS EDITIONS Exclusive deep dives, specials & extended conversations from one-off specials to extra episodes that expand on our weekly free shows, you’ll get fresh, members-only content - including our “Bonus Editions” strand where Rob and Jonathan go deeper into football’s biggest stories and hidden histories. WORLD CUP WEDNESDAYS! Our countdown to 2026 - every tournament revisited Join Rob and Jonathan as they walk through every World Cup from 1930 to today, exploring the drama, evolution, legends, controversies and cultural impact of each tournament. RETRO MAGAZINE COLLECTION Flicking through the archives of classic football culture A nostalgic series diving into the pages of Shoot! and other retro football magazines - revisiting the stars, forgotten features, and football fandom of decades past. MONTHLY LIVE Q&A WITH ROB & JONATHAN Your chance to ask two of football’s leading writers anything. Submit your questions about recent episodes, football history, their journalism, or upcoming projects — and hear their answers in our LIVE members-only Q&A. JOIN THE IT WAS COMMUNITY Connect with fellow fans & nostalgia lovers Meet other members who share your passion for football history. Be part of the conversation and help shape the future of the show. What’s included Exclusive content Q&As Ad-free episodes Private community Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What it Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into Pep Guardiola’s story at Manchester City 10 years on from his appointment at the club and the difficulties he would face in his opening season. Join us as we explore the highs and lows, from the thrilling victories to the unexpected defeats. We discuss his controversial decisions, key matches, and the significant signings that shaped the team's future. Can Pep's philosophy adapt to the rigors of English football? Discover how one of the world's most acclaimed coaches navigated his debut season and set the stage for a legacy at the Etihad. Don't miss out on the in-depth analysis and special bonus content available exclusively on our Patreon page, following the link below: https://www.patreon.com/cw/ItWas 00:00 Exciting News: Join Our Patreon Community! 02:51 Introduction 04:47 Pep Guardiola's First Season Struggles 07:56 The Tactical Challenges and Key Matches 15:52 Pep's Appointment and Early Expectations 22:02 Transfer Market Moves and Squad Challenges 27:53 Yaya Touré's Controversial Exit 28:56 Manchester City's Winning Streak 30:34 Champions League Group Stage Drama 32:02 Pep's Concerns and Criticisms 43:49 Champions League Humiliation 51:44 End of a Disappointing Season 53:19 Looking Ahead: Pep's Future at City Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We're launching on Patreon! And to kick things off, here's a sneak peek of what you'll be getting if you join the "It Was" Patreon community. In this first episode in a new Patreon series - Rob and Jonathan take a trip back through historic issues of football magazines - starting with Shoot! If you join, you'll also be getting all of our main episdoes ad free, bonus episodes, World Cup countdown and Q&As with Rob and Jonathan. Plus you'll be supporting the show and connecting with the "It Was..." community. Patreon subscribers get: BONUS EDITIONS Exclusive deep dives, specials & extended conversations from one-off specials to extra episodes that expand on our weekly free shows, you’ll get fresh, members-only content - including our “Bonus Editions” strand where Rob and Jonathan go deeper into football’s biggest stories and hidden histories. WORLD CUP COLLECTION Our countdown to 2026 - every tournament revisited Join Rob and Jonathan as they walk through every World Cup from 1930 to today, exploring the drama, evolution, legends, controversies and cultural impact of each tournament. RETRO MAGAZINE COLLECTION Flicking through the archives of classic football culture A nostalgic series diving into the pages of Shoot! and other retro football magazines - revisiting the stars, forgotten features, and football fandom of decades past. MONTHLY LIVE Q&A WITH ROB & JONATHAN Your chance to ask two of football’s leading writers anything. Submit your questions about recent episodes, football history, their journalism, or upcoming projects — and hear their answers in our LIVE members-only Q&A. JOIN THE IT WAS COMMUNITY Connect with fellow fans & nostalgia lovers Meet other members who share your passion for football history. Be part of the conversation and help shape the future of the show. What’s included Exclusive content Q&As Ad-free episodes Private community Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We are excited to announce that we will be launching a Patreon on Friday 6th February, where you can get bonus episodes and exclusive content. Follow the link below to sign up: Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. On today's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue exploring one of the most controversial football transfers - Luis Figo's move from Barcelona to Real Madrid. In this second part of the two-part series, they delve into the public and private turmoil surrounding the transfer, including the dramatic fallout at both clubs, fan reactions, and the momentous pig's head incident. They also examine the long-term impact on Figo's career and friendships, and the profound changes this transfer spurred in football. Don't miss this thrilling conclusion! 00:00 Exciting News and our Patreon Launch 02:51 Introduction to the Episode 04:28 Speculation and Media Frenzy 06:17 Election Drama and Figo's Dilemma 07:30 The Final Decision 09:52 The Fallout and Consequences 11:51 The Election Results 13:56 Figo's Reluctance and Pressure 16:26 The Persuasion Tactics 19:20 The Final Agreement 28:19 Florentino's Persuasion Tactics 31:22 Figo's Announcement and Gaspar's Reaction 33:14 The Fallout in Barcelona 40:57 The First El Clásico After the Transfer 43:49 The Infamous Pig's Head Incident 48:56 The Lingering Legacy and Impact 53:20 Figo's Reflections and Conclusion Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What it Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into one of the most shocking football transfers of all time - Luis Figo's move from Barcelona to Real Madrid. They discuss the immense impact of this transfer on both clubs, the controversy surrounding it, and how it altered the landscape of football transfers forever. Featuring insights about the political machinations in both clubs, the role of agents, and the seismic shift this transfer created in the football world, this episode brings to life the dramatic story behind the headlines. Tune in for part one of this fascinating two-part series! 00:00 Quote to open the episode 05:53 Figo's Role and Style of Play 09:16 The Political and Historical Context 17:03 The Presidential Election and Florentino Perez 26:39 Florentino Perez's Strategy 30:44 The Complacency at Barcelona 31:23 Florentino Perez's Scramble for Figo 32:20 The Role of José Veiga 36:11 The Pre-Contract and Its Implications 48:06 The Election and the Leak 52:54 The Fallout and Future Implications 53:20 Exciting News: Launching a Patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What it Was, the football history podcast. In the final episode of our four-part special on the NASL, co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson delve into the decline and eventual collapse of the league. From financial instability, over-expansion, and missed opportunities, to the controversial business decisions and the rise of indoor soccer. This episode covers the myriad of factors that led to the NASL's downfall. Explore the final turbulent years, the impact on US Soccer, and the lessons learned from one of football's most intriguing leagues. 00:00 Introduction to the NASL and Its Peak 02:08 The Decline Begins: Post-Pele Era 05:36 Celebrity Owners and Financial Woes 09:01 The Cosmos' Dominance and League Format Issues 19:21 Franchise Movements and Player Strikes 29:03 The Beginning of the End: Financial Losses and Decline 36:13 Ownership Disputes and Relocations 37:53 Franchise Failures and Player Movements 43:34 NASL's Struggles and FIFA's Ultimatum 44:28 The Final Collapse of NASL 55:18 Failed Experiments and Indoor Soccer 01:01:49 The End of NASL and Its Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this third episode of our four-part special on the North American Soccer League (NASL), co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper dive deep into the transformation kicked off by the arrival of legendary soccer star Pele. We go on an epic journey of the NASL, from shambolic beginnings to becoming one of the most iconic and influential leagues in world football, even if just for a short while. We explore how the NASL went from drawing crowds, to attracting the highest-paid player in the world, and the ensuing excitement and challenges that followed. Featuring the key moments, star players, innovative marketing strategies, and the initial signs of financial instability, this episode captures the league at its highest just before its inevitable decline. Don't miss this fascinating look at the peaks of NASL's history and what ultimately led the league to stumble. Tune in next week for the final episode of this four-part series. 02:33 The Growth of Soccer in American Schools and Colleges 03:32 Financial Struggles and the Arrival of Pele 13:54 Innovative Rule Changes and Attendance Issues 18:11 The Role of Media and Celebrity Influence 23:55 The NASL's Expansion and Financial Commitments 31:20 The Pursuit of Soccer Superstars 33:01 Pele's Impact on American Soccer 34:56 The Rise of NASL Franchises 36:59 Challenges and Financial Struggles 39:11 Marketing Gimmicks and Celebrity Players 55:03 The Golden Year of 1977 01:04:36 Pele's Farewell and Future Uncertainties Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue onto part two of a four-part special on the North American Soccer League (NASL). They discuss the initial attempts to establish professional soccer leagues in America, including the rivalries between the NASL and the National Professional Soccer League (NPSL). The episode covers the impact of foreign teams, the financial and logistical hurdles, and the ongoing struggle to gain popularity and acceptance in the U.S. market. With input from past experiences and key figures, they provide an in-depth look at why American soccer faced numerous setbacks and what was done to overcome them. Join us next week for part three! 01:09 The Early Years of Soccer in the USA 01:34 The Impact of the Wall Street Crash 06:46 Post-War Challenges 09:43 The Decline of American Soccer in the 1950s 21:46 The 1960s: A Decade of Missed Opportunities 27:15 The Birth of the NASL 33:25 Lack of American Players in Early Leagues 34:55 Rival Leagues: NPSL vs NASL 35:42 Initial Matches and Attendance Issues 40:11 Discipline Problems and Game Abandonments 48:10 Financial Struggles and Legal Battles 49:13 National Team Struggles and Attempts at Growth 50:31 Foreign Influence and Pre-season Tours 54:48 Financial Instability and League Contraction 58:20 NASL's Unconventional Season Format 01:00:32 Legacy and Future Prospects of NASL Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper bring you a New Years Day Special Episode. We hope you enjoy and wish you all a Happy New Year! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by a special guest and former footballer Dennis Tueart. In this first episode of our four-part special on the North American Soccer League (NASL), Dennis, known for his iconic moments with Sunderland and Manchester City, shares his remarkable journey from English football to the booming NASL in the 1970s. Discover his experiences with the New York Cosmos, playing alongside legends like Franz Beckenbauer, replacing Pele, navigating cultural shifts, and understanding the challenges and triumphs that shaped the future of soccer in America. Don't miss this deep dive into football history, glamour, and the evolution of the beautiful game in the United States. 00:57 Dennis Tueart's Transfer to the Cosmos 02:05 Challenges and Decisions 04:19 Arrival and Initial Impressions 07:15 Experiences and Reflections 11:38 Life in the NASL 17:18 Training and Facilities 18:58 Pre-season and Early Challenges 25:14 The NASL's Unique Rules 29:55 Challenges and Triumphs in the NASL 30:25 Play-off Performances and Nicknames 30:59 Intense Matches and Injuries 31:36 The Semi-final Comeback 36:27 Winning the Conference Final 37:40 Facing Rodney Marsh and Tampa Bay 42:51 Touring and Transitioning 46:53 Final Reflections and Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this Christmas Special Episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by author John Smith to talk about his new book - 'Escape: A Love Letter to a Cult Football Classic' all about the film 'Escape to Victory'. The trio delve into the making of the film, revealing behind-the-scenes stories, discussing the film's historical context, and analysing the football sequences. We take a look at inside stories from the remarkable cast and crew, including Pele and Sylvester Stallone. The three discuss amusing anecdotes, the authenticity of the football matches and the film's lasting impact. This episode is a must-listen for fans of film and football history. Wishing you all a Merry Christmas from the It Was What It Was team! 00:00 Introduction and Welcoming John Smith 04:41 The Making of 'Escape to Victory' 20:44 Historical Resonances and Themes 28:59 Behind the Scenes Stories 34:09 The Escape Plan in the Film 37:11 The Cast and Their Connections 41:36 The Missing Footballer Mystery 46:01 Lack of Female Characters 47:06 The Football Game Analysis 53:19 The Half-Time Escape Plan 58:00 The Final Match Moments 01:06:13 Concluding Thoughts and Farewell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into George Orwell's infamous essay on sport, specifically focusing on Dinamo Moscow's 1945 tour of Britain. They explore Orwell's controversial viewpoint that serious sport is akin to 'war minus the shooting,' and delve into the historical and political context of this post-WWII football tour. The discussion covers the tactical innovations introduced by the Soviet team, the media and public's reaction, and the broader implications for international sport and politics. This episode provides an in-depth look at how football can both unite and divide, reflecting on Orwell's critique and its relevance to today's sports culture. 00:00 Introduction: The Dark Side of Sports 01:05 George Orwell's Influence on Sports 01:49 The Political Context of the 1945 Moscow Tour 02:47 The Goodwill Tour: Ideals vs. Reality 05:00 The Soviet Union's Football Strategy 08:23 The Arrival of Dinamo Moscow 21:45 The First Match: Dinamo Moscow vs Chelsea 30:53 The Political Showdown: Arsenal vs Dinamo Moscow 32:31 The Final Game in Scotland 35:56 Soviet Propaganda and the Legacy of the Tour 40:36 Tactical Innovations and English Football's Response 47:36 George Orwell's Critique of Sport 53:18 Football's Role in Nationalism and International Relations 01:00:51 Concluding Thoughts on Orwell and Football Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by special guest and historian David Goldblatt. In this episode, they discuss David's new book, 'Injury Time,' which examines the impact of recent seismic events like Brexit, COVID-19, and populism on football in Britain. They delve into the popularity of football despite its numerous challenges, the economic disparities within the game, and the global obsession with the Premier League. The conversation also touches on the significance of football as a cultural and political space, the rise of women's football, and the ethical concerns surrounding state ownership of clubs. They also examine the role of fans and community. This episode provides a comprehensive look at the current state and the future of the beautiful game. 00:00 Introduction 00:55 The State of Football Today 03:21 Football as a National Obsession 07:41 Globalisation and Football's Cultural Impact 19:12 Economic Disparities in Football 21:35 Football Reflecting Social Inequalities 29:50 Football's Role in Social and Political Issues 31:20 The Role of Football in Society 33:38 Economic Inequality in Football 36:50 The Super League Controversy 41:25 Cultural Resistance and Football's Future 54:42 The Impact of COVID on Football 59:20 State Involvement in Football 01:02:11 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper look into the dark and controversial period of Streltsov’s life. In this second part we cover the heinous crime that Streltsov was accused of, the subsequent trial and conviction, and his years in the Gulag. Despite the damning evidence, Streltsov's eventual return to football and continued popularity are explored, along with the societal implications and unresolved questions surrounding his story. Join us for a detailed look at both the fall and unexpected resurgence of a man once considered the 'Russian Pele.’ This episode contains discussion of sexual abuse and rape, which some listeners may find distressing. If you’ve been affected by any of the issues raised, the NHS provides a list of support services and resources here: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/sexual-health/help-after-rape-and-sexual-assault 00:00 A Dark Story Unfolds 00:31 The Accusation and Confession 04:50 The Aftermath and Public Reaction 05:40 Evidence and Forensic Details 07:05 The State's Role 08:22 Personal Struggles and Downfall 23:42 Speculations and Suspicions 26:14 The Case Against Streltsov 28:14 The Soviet State's Role 30:31 Marina's Disappearance 32:08 Life in the Gulag 40:15 Streltsov’s Return to Football 48:21 Legacy and Controversy 52:06 Conclusion Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the story of Eduard Streltsov, the 'Russian Pele'. In the first part of this two-part series, we trace Streltsov's meteoric rise from a poor upbringing to becoming a celebrated football talent. Witness his groundbreaking performances, his early brush with fame, and the personal flaws that began to unravel his career. Discover the events leading up to the fateful allegations that would ultimately tarnish his legacy. Join us as we unveil the complexities and the promises cut short in the life of one of Soviet football's most enigmatic figures. This episode contains discussion of sexual abuse and rape, which some listeners may find distressing. If you’ve been affected by any of the issues raised, the NHS provides a list of support services and resources here: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/sexual-health/help-after-rape-and-sexual-assault 00:00 Introduction 03:38 The Soviet Football Landscape in the 1950s 09:35 Streltsov's Early Life and Family Background 16:31 Streltsov's Football Career Takes Off 20:40 The 1956 Olympics and Missed Opportunities 25:17 The Medal That Never Was 27:01 The Downfall Begins 30:37 A Pattern of Trouble 49:50 Streltsov's Arrest 50:12 Confession and Public Outcry Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue the extraordinary story of Imre Hirschl, the Hungarian who revolutionised South American football. In this second part, we look into Hirschl's impact on Uruguay's historic 1950 World Cup victory and his innovative tactics at Club Atlético Peñarol and River Plate. Discover how Hirschl's genius and controversial methods shaped football history, transforming teams and leaving a lasting legacy on the footballing world. 00:45 The Tactical Mastermind Behind Uruguay's Success 01:55 Controversial Matches and Referee Decisions 05:20 The Dominance of the Big Five in Argentinian Football 08:37 Hirschl's move to River Plate 11:59 Tactical Evolution and Direct Play 16:55 Hircshl’s Downfall and Match-Fixing Allegations 21:06 Return to Coaching and Success in Uruguay 28:22 Strict Discipline and Unique Methods 29:09 Young Players and Team Dynamics 31:14 Campaign for National Coach 31:59 Political Disputes and Appointments 33:22 World Cup Preparations and Chaos 35:43 Uruguay's Tactical Genius 37:11 The Shocking World Cup Final 43:48 Aftermath and Legacy 44:58 Hirschl's Influence and Final Years Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper deep dive into the extraordinary story of Imre Hirschl, the Hungarian who took South American football by storm. In this first part of a two-part series we hear the story of Hirschl's early life, his emigration to South America, and his unexpected rise to coaching fame in Argentina. From starting as a salami salesman to becoming the mastermind behind Gimnasia y Esgrima La Plata's success, Hirschl's tale is one of perseverance, innovation, and tactical genius. Tune in to discover the myths, challenges, and triumphs of this unlikely football legend who redefined the game during the early 20th century. 00:00 The Unlikely Beginnings of a Coaching Legend 03:46 The Hungarian Influence on South American Football 07:59 Unraveling the Myths and Realities 09:40 A Journey Through War and Immigration 16:29 The Butcher Turned Football Visionary 21:55 The Mystery of Hirschl's Football Career 24:38 Meeting Béla Guttmann and the Next Chapter 26:21 Hirschl's Coaching Journey Begins 28:14 Tactical Innovations and Success 30:21 Challenges and Triumphs in Argentina 31:14 Early Coaching Stint in Brazil 32:42 Struggles and Determination 42:21 Hirschl's Coaching Philosophy 46:48 Building a Winning Team 49:32 Conclusion and Future Prospects Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this second part on data in football, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue their exploration into how data analytics transformed modern football. This episode delves into Liverpool's remarkable journey using data and how it helped them to win the Champions League in 2019 and the Premier League in 2020. We take a look at the story behind key figures like Ian Graham and Michael Edwards, exploring their early skepticism, the challenges they faced, and the groundbreaking decisions that followed. Discover how Liverpool's recruitment strategy evolved with data, featuring key transfers such as Sadio Mané, Mohamed Salah, and Andy Robertson. Discover the tensions and synergies between data-driven decisions and traditional football instincts that reshaped Liverpool and influenced their remarkable success under Jürgen Klopp. 00:44 The Role of Data in Football 02:00 Key Figures: Ian Graham and Michael Edwards 03:17 Michael Edwards' Journey 07:18 Early Skepticism and Challenges 12:39 Liverpool's Data Revolution 14:54 Transfer Market Strategies 18:35 Cultural Clashes and Successes 26:24 Ian Graham's Role in Liverpool's Data Revolution 27:42 The Transfer Committee's Struggles and Criticisms 30:23 Jurgen Klopp's Introduction to Data Analytics 35:49 The Impact of Data on Key Signings 42:12 The Evolution and Challenges of Data-Driven Decisions 44:43 The Future of Data in Football 51:47 Conclusion Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by journalist, broadcaster and author of 'Expected Goals: The story of how data conquered football and changed the game' Rory Smith. In today’s episode we explore the fascinating journey of data analytics in football. From the early days of Charles Reep and Valeriy Lobanovskyi's basic data collection to the revolutionary 1990s that saw a surge in clubs like Liverpool using a data-driven approach under Ian Graham and Michael Edwards to lead to Premier League success. We also look at how clubs like Bolton Wanderers under Sam Allardyce leveraged data to gain a competitive edge and and the cultural shift towards data in football management. Tune in to understand how data played a crucial role in some of the greatest footballing successes of the modern era. 00:00 Introduction and Welcoming Rory Smith 00:42 The Evolution of Data in Football 01:29 The Role of Data Collectors 05:04 Prozone and Early Data Pioneers 11:17 The Culture War: Nerds vs. Scouts 12:17 Sam Allardyce: The Unlikely Data Advocate 23:32 Moneyball and Its Impact on Football 27:24 Decision Technology and Early Predictions 28:06 The Role of Data in Football Predictions 28:48 The Fink Tank Column and Its Impact 31:09 Spurs' Missed Opportunity with Data 32:56 Tottenham's Early Adoption of Data Analytics 41:11 Liverpool's Data-Driven Transformation 47:10 The Cultural Shift Towards Data in Football 58:44 The Importance of Communication in Data Utilisation 59:45 Conclusion Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this second episode of a two-part special, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue their exploration of Lionel Messi's early years, focusing on his journey from 2005 to the cusp of greatness in 2008. This episode delves into pivotal moments such as Messi's breakthrough in Barcelona's first team, his dramatic red card on his Argentina debut, and his developing relationship with key figures like Ronaldinho. We take a look at Messi's significant impact in the Joan Gamper Trophy, his hat-trick against Real Madrid in the El Clásico, and his stunning solo goal against Getafe. The episode also sheds light on the internal struggles and political tensions within Argentina's national team during the 2006 World Cup, and the influence of Barcelona's management in shaping Messi's career path. Join us as explore the trials and triumphs that shaped Messi into one of football's greatest ever. 00:00 Introduction: Messi's Early Brilliance 00:40 Messi's Breakthrough in 2005 01:23 Homesickness 04:00 Argentina Debut: A Rocky Start 09:25 Barcelona's Dilemma 11:31 Rising Star: The Joan Gamper Trophy 13:52 Contract Negotiations and Transfer Rumors 17:34 Messi's Impact in La Liga and Champions League 25:29 Messi's Diet and Lifestyle Concerns 26:11 Injury Setback and Return to Training 27:26 Champions League Final Disappointment 31:22 World Cup 2006: Argentina's Journey 36:07 Quarter-Final Clash with Germany 42:25 Barcelona's Decline and Messi's Rise 46:57 Ronaldinho's Influence and Messi's Future 49:10 Conclusion and Future Prospects Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson delve into Lionel Messi's early years at Barcelona and his rise to stardom. They explore Messi's journey from his initial signing to the club in 2000 to the early recognition of his talent by notable figures like Ronaldinho. The episode highlights Messi's challenges, including his growth hormone treatment and cultural adjustments as a young Argentine in Spain. Key moments such as his interactions with future stars like Gerard Piqué, Cesc Fàbregas, as well as his significant contributions to Barcelona's youth and first teams, which are discussed in detail. This episode covers his early setbacks, first team debut, and eventual triumphs, culminating in his standout performance at the 2005 FIFA U20 World Cup. Join us as we uncover how Messi went from a promising youngster to an emerging superstar at Barcelona. 00:00 Introduction to the episode 00:40 Messi's Signing and Initial Challenges 01:15 Settling in Barcelona: Cultural and Personal Struggles 05:51 Integration and Early Successes 20:40 Political Chaos and Youth Team Dynamics 23:33 Messi's Rising Star and International Attention 27:06 First Impressions and Early Training 27:39 Debut and Initial Reactions 29:37 Contract Negotiations and Adjustments 32:48 National Team Dilemmas 38:31 Integration into Barcelona's First Team 46:27 Under-20 World Cup and Rising Stardom 51:18 Conclusion and Looking Ahead Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of It Was What It Was, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue the story of Brian Clough’s Nottingham Forest, following on from their European Cup victory in the last episode. This third part of a four-part special covers the 1979-80 season, looking at how Forest overcame obstacles both on and off the pitch to claim their second successive European Cup. Within the season there are some highs and lows, from overcoming unexpected challenges, and navigating crucial European fixtures to dealing with internal instability and controversial management methods. From high-profile transfers to unforgettable European nights, tune in to discover how this extraordinary team went on to write another chapter in their illustrious history. 00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene 01:03 Nottingham Forest's European Campaign Begins 01:28 Key Transfers and Management Decisions 07:47 Unexpected Challenges and Controversies 20:31 European Cup Quarter-Finals 28:52 The Importance of Team Camaraderie 30:19 Challenges and Strategies in European Matches 32:38 Player Management and Injuries 36:23 Prepping for the European Cup Final 42:49 The Final Match Against Hamburg 51:03 Post-Match Reflections and Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of It Was What It Was, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue their deep dive into Brian Clough's transformative tenure at Nottingham Forest. This second part of a four-part special, captures the thrilling journey as Forest ventures into the European Cup, starting from their incredible 5-1 victory over AEK Athens and leading up to their historic final against Malmö. Expect to hear detailed anecdotes and insights revealing Clough's unique management style, key matches and significant strategic decisions, including the controversial but ultimately successful signing of Trevor Francis for a British record fee. Join us to explore how a team from the second division ascended to the pinnacle of European football. 00:28 Introduction to Nottingham Forest's European Journey 01:26 Forest's Rise to European Dominance 01:46 The Quest for the European Cup 03:36 Strategic Moves and Key Decisions 10:02 Facing Liverpool in the European Cup 12:42 The Tactical Genius of Clough and Taylor 26:17 The Aftermath and Moving Forward 26:38 Unbeaten Streak and Chairman Change 27:35 European Cup Drama: Forest vs. AEK Athens 28:19 Clough's Management Style and Larry Lloyd Incident 30:55 Training Anecdotes and Managerial Hypocrisy 37:39 Trevor Francis Joins Forest 40:51 League Cup Final and European Cup Quarter-Finals 42:25 Semi-Final Showdown Against Cologne 48:37 European Cup Final Against Malmö 55:27 Forest Crowned European Champions Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper set the stage for Brian Clough’s remarkable journey to becoming manager of Nottingham Forest in this first part of a four-part-special. After his departure from Leeds, Clough takes on the challenge of revitalising a mid-table second division team into a team that dominates English and European football. Clough's reunion with assistant Peter Taylor plays a pivotal role as they sign key players like Peter Shilton and Kenny Burns. This episode looks at the early challenges faced, strategic player signings, and the pivotal moments that laid the groundwork for Nottingham Forest's incredible achievements. Join us as we set the stage for one of football's most astonishing success stories. 01:09 The Rise and Fall of Brian Clough 08:30 Clough's Early Struggles at Nottingham Forest 21:03 Clough's Confrontational Style 24:44 Building the Foundation for Success 27:07 The Clough-Taylor Partnership 27:39 Taylor's Reluctance and Reconciliation 28:52 Building a Winning Team 31:16 The Anglo-Scottish Cup Victory 33:37 Promotion to the Top Flight 34:43 Strengthening the Squad 36:33 Clough's England Manager Candidacy 42:11 A Defensive Strategy for Success 46:46 Winning the League and Beyond 52:15 Conclusion and Next Episode Teaser Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson delve into Manchester United’s 1985-86 season - a campaign filled with promise, passion, and ultimately, heartbreak. A year that began with soaring hopes and a record-breaking unbeaten run, unravels in a whirlwind of injuries, off-field drama, and missed opportunities. We’ll explore the highs and lows of Ron Atkinson’s final full season in charge, from the electric atmosphere at Old Trafford to the heartbreak of falling short in the title race. Expect in-depth analysis of key matches, player performances, and the pivotal moments that defined the season as Rob and Jonathan relive the excitement, the agony, and the legacy of 1985-86. 00:29 – The 1985-86 Season: High Hopes and Early Promise 01:49 – Ron Atkinson’s Arrival and United’s Managerial History 04:38 – The Big Ron Era: Style, Successes, and Setbacks 08:41 – The Bryan Robson Factor: United’s Dependence 13:23 – Squad Building, Transfers, and Team Dynamics 17:13 – Cup Runs, League Frustrations, and Dressing Room Drama 24:50 – The State of English Football in the Mid-80s 25:59 – The 1985-86 Season Kicks Off 27:50 – United’s Record-Breaking Start 32:41 – The Winning Streak and Early League Dominance 39:13 – Injuries, Draws, and the Beginning of the Decline 43:34 – Mark Hughes’ Transfer Saga and Off-Field Turmoil 47:03 – The Drinking Culture and Its Impact 49:43 – The Collapse: Losing Form and the Title 54:56 – The End of the Atkinson Era 59:18 – The Arrival of Sir Alex Ferguson & Reflections Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast hosted by Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper. In this second episode of a two-part special, we delve into the pivotal moments that lifted the 50-year ban on women's football in England. From the formation of the Women’s Football Association, to looking at the birth of the Lionesses and their first official international match. This episode looks at the pioneering women and their allies who revived the game in the 1960s, building grassroots clubs, fighting for recognition to pave the way for women’s football today. Tune in to hear all about the history of the women’s game. 00:00 The End of the Ban 00:28 Picking Up the Pieces: Women’s Football After the Ban 00:53 The 1960s Revival: Grassroots and New Teams 03:10 The Impact of England’s 1966 World Cup Win 07:54 Building a Movement: Key Figures and Early Clubs 10:56 Struggles for Facilities and Recognition 12:50 International Influence 21:22 The Formation of the Women’s Football Association 24:32 The FA’s Changing Attitude and Official Recognition 27:20 The First Women’s FA Cup and International Competitions 29:40 Tensions: Unofficial vs. Official Tournaments 36:52 The Lost Lionesses: Mexico 1971 and Unrecognised Pioneers 40:26 The First Official Lionesses Game: Scotland vs. England, 1972 45:44 Media Coverage and Social Attitudes 47:44 Timeline: From the First Match to Modern Success 50:08 Reflections: The Legacy of the Pioneers Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to another episode of It Was What It Was with hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper as they delve into the history of The Lionesses and the true story behind the first ever women's Euros. This episode explores the struggles and triumphs of women's football, from the controversial FA ban in 1921, to England's historic victory in the 2025 Euros. Rob and Jonathan look into the pioneering efforts of teams like the Dick, Kerr Ladies and the Manchester Corinthians, looking at how women's football overcame a 50-year ban to shine on the world stage. Join us as we uncover the groundbreaking stories and resilient pioneers behind this incredible journey through a century of women's football history. 00:00 Introduction: Girls and Football 00:51 The Ban on Women's Football 01:37 The Struggle and Triumph of Women's Football 03:02 The Dick, Kerr Ladies and Their Legacy 04:22 The Impact of the FA Ban 07:00 International Tours and Recognition 12:59 Manchester Corinthians: A New Hope 18:34 Cultural Contrasts in Women's Football 20:48 The First Women's Euros: A Hidden History 22:10 The Rise and Fall of the International Ladies Football Association 26:21 Manchester Corinthians: Pioneers of Women's Football 32:21 Missed Opportunities and Reflections 38:44 Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper welcome special guest Euan Flynn, author of 'When the Year Ends in One,' to discuss Tottenham Hotspur's momentous 1990-91 season. The episode delves into Paul Gascoigne's tearful departure due to a career-threatening injury during the FA Cup final and the financial turmoil facing the club, which saw a potential world-record transfer deal collapse. The podcast covers the epic highs and disastrous lows of that pivotal season, from Gascoigne's mesmerizing FA Cup run to the behind-the-scenes financial entanglements involving Irving Scholar and the club's eventual acquisition by Alan Sugar. Tune in for an in-depth look at how this season had ramifications far beyond the football pitch. 00:00 Gascoigne's Injury and Tottenham's Financial Crisis 00:37 Introduction to the Special Episode 01:41 The Pivotal 1990-91 Season 02:19 Tottenham's Financial Woes and Ownership Issues 04:03 The Year Ending in One: A Superstition Explained 05:21 Gascoigne's Meteoric Rise and Media Frenzy 08:02 The Illusion of a Title Challenge 10:18 Irving Scholar's Takeover and Financial Missteps 21:13 The Culture and Discipline at Tottenham 23:46 The FA Cup Run Begins 31:36 The Pressure on Young Athletes 32:28 The Semifinal at Wembley 34:00 Venables and the Mysterious Financier 40:34 The FA Cup Final Build-Up 47:23 The Dramatic FA Cup Final 54:36 The Aftermath and Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson delve into the life of OrestesCorbatta, a legendary Argentine footballer whose story combines brilliance and tragedy. Known for his dazzling dribbling skills and audacious playstyle, Corbatta played a crucial role in Argentina's 1957 Campeonato Sudamericano win. However, despite his football genius, Corbatta's life was marred by alcoholism and personal struggles. The episode explores his rise from a rural town to becoming a national icon, his struggles with illiteracy, and the personal traumas that impacted his career. Draper and Wilson also discuss the broader significance of Corbatta's style in the context of Argentine football, drawing parallels to legends like Maradona and Messi. Join us as we remember the poetic yet tragic life of Omar Orestes Corbatta, a player whose legacy continues to influence Argentine football today. 00:00 Introduction 01:31 The Significance of the 1957 Campeonato Sudamericano 04:39 The Evolution of Argentinian Football 09:34 The Five Simbas and Their Impact 16:08 The Role of Radio in Argentinian Football Culture 19:31 The Decline and Shift in Argentinian Football 23:42 The Duality of Argentinian Football: Beauty and Cynicism 26:15 The Tragic Figure of Coba 27:25 Early Life and Struggles 29:49 Rise to Fame and Personal Challenges 33:50 The Decline Begins 38:46 Final Years and Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the Football History podcast hosted by Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper. In this second episode of a two-part special, we explore the life of Mohamed Salah - from winning his third PFA player of the year award, to the pressures and the complex political landscape he navigates in Egypt . We delve into Salah's impact in the UK, his challenging relationship with International football, from rural Egypt to the global stage, Mohamed Salah's journey is as thrilling as it is complex. Join us for an in-depth look at one of the most intriguing figures in modern football. 00:00 Introduction 00:44 Mohamed Salah's Political and Cultural Significance 03:01 The Complexities of Expressing Political Views 05:02 Historical Context: Egypt's Political Landscape 14:19 The Arab Spring and Its Aftermath 24:06 Mohamed Salah's Relationship with the Egyptian National Team 27:40 High Stakes in World Cup Play-offs 28:35 Egypt's Football Legacy and Recent Struggles 29:55 The 2018 World Cup Disappointment 31:56 Controversies and Criticisms 37:59 Political Pressures and Social Media 44:46 Salah's Impact in the UK 49:24 The Ballon d'Or and Future Prospects Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today, co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson are joined by Ed Aarons from The Guardian to discuss the incredible journey of Mohamed Salah. With the PFA Footballer of the Year awards tonight, Salah's early life and career beginnings are explored in depth. Ed shares his research from travels to Salah's hometown in Egypt, providing unique insights into the challenges Salah faced, including the long commute for training and the support from his family. The episode covers Salah’s initial struggles, his move to Basel, and his eventual breakout that caught the attention of major clubs. Join us to learn how Salah's dedication and hard work paved the way for his renowned career. 00:00 Introduction and Today's Topic: Mohamed Salah 00:38 Guest Introduction: Ed Aarons 00:54 Journey to Egypt: Tracing Salah's Roots 01:54 Experiences in Salah's Hometown 03:22 Salah's Early Life and Football Beginnings 12:39 Challenges and Dedication in Salah's Youth 18:40 Salah's Transition to Professional Football 21:29 Cultural and Personal Insights on Salah 22:11 Salah's Early Professional Struggles 23:53 The Turning Point: Mastering the Art of Finishing 25:09 Early Career Struggles and Breakthroughs 26:33 International Recognition and Olympic Success 30:10 The Tragic Event That Changed Everything 31:31 The Move to Basel: Trials and Triumphs 39:00 Challenges at Chelsea and the Path to Greatness 44:26 Liverpool's Perfect Fit: Salah's Rise to Stardom 46:25 National Team Challenges and Rivalries 49:57 Legacy and Comparisons: The Greatest African Player? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today's episode of It Was What It Was, hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson explore a crucial moment in Premier League history: José Mourinho's dramatic 2015/16 season at Chelsea. They discuss Mourinho's second sacking at Chelsea and the key incidents that led to his sacking just 6 months after winning the title, including the infamous Eva Carneiro incident and clashes with players like Eden Hazard, and a turbulent pre-season tour. The episode examines how these factors contributed to a season of rapid decline, leading to Mourinho's sacking and raising questions about his methods in modern football. 00:00 Introduction 00:33 Reflecting on Jose Mourinho's 2015 Season 01:42 The Beginning of the End: Preseason Signs 06:01 The Eva Carneiro Incident 14:29 Preseason Tour Troubles 20:50 Early Season Struggles 26:07 The Impact of the Eva Carneiro Affair 27:54 Conclusion and Transition to Second Half 29:04 Chelsea's Struggles Begin 29:31 Tactical Changes and Player Issues 30:33 Transfer Market Woes 33:33 Leadership Void and Dressing Room Dynamics 37:43 Marino's Public Outbursts 45:57 The Final Straw: Leicester Defeat 48:21 Marino's Departure and Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by guest Jan Åge Fjørtoft to explore the groundbreaking transfer of Brazilian footabller Juninho to Middlesbrough in 1995. The discussion explores the players’ previous career highlights, the unique challenges they faced adjusting to English football, and the cultural impact of Juninho's arrival on the Premier League. Special focus is given to the transformational role this transfer played in attracting world-class talent to mid-level English clubs. Jan gives insightful stories and personal anecdotes surrounding how Juninho became a beloved figure at Middlesbrough and his lasting legacy in English football history. 00:00 Introduction and Today's Topic 01:12 Early Career and Move to Rapid Vienna 02:32 Transition to English Football 04:49 Joining Middlesbrough and Early Impressions 13:26 The Impact of Janio's Signing 16:51 Cultural Adjustments and Training Challenges 19:07 Middlesbrough's Transformation and Community Connection 30:28 Cultural Insights from Middlesbrough 31:02 Tactical Evolution in English Football 31:45 Adapting to English Football's Physicality 36:23 Weather and Training Challenges 40:25 The Impact of Foreign Signings 50:10 Middlesbrough's Tumultuous Season 59:09 Legacy of Jan Nino and the Premier League Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In Part Two of our series on Don Revie's Leeds United, co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson explore the origins of the 'Dirty Leeds' tag. This episode delves into the notorious 1964 match against Everton that cemented the club's aggressive reputation. It discusses the reactions from fans and media, the role of football associations, and Revie's responses. Our conclusion also examines the cultural and tactical shifts in football during the 1960s and how Leeds' image became a point of controversy and unity for the team and its supporters. Tune in to uncover the complexities behind one of football's most infamous labels. Please remember to share, rate, review and comment to help It Was What It Was grow. 00:00 Introduction 01:36 The Dirty Leeds Tag 03:46 Don Revy's Management Style 27:43 Promotion and the Great Moral Panic 29:21 The Notorious Game against Everton at Goodison 30:37 Media and Public Perception 31:47 Football's Changing Landscape 33:04 The Birth of 'Dirty Leeds' 41:30 Revie's Reaction and Amplification 56:04 Conclusion and Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this episode, co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson discuss the significant impact of Don Revie on Leeds United and English football. The episode covers Revie's early career, his transition into management, and his influence on Leeds United. The narrative delves into the challenges Leeds faced before Revie's arrival, his innovative approaches, and the beginning of Leeds' transformation. This is the first part of a series exploring the legendary 'Dirty Leeds' era, their historical context, and whether they really were 'dirty' or just misunderstood. Join us for Part Two on Friday. 00:00 Introduction 01:03 The Controversial Reputation of Leeds United 03:21 Historical Context of Leeds United 04:26 The West Stand Fire and Financial Crisis 06:42 Managerial Struggles and Relegation 17:33 Don Revie's Appointment and Early Life 26:08 Revie's Early Career and Influence of Smith 28:34 Revie's Superstitions and Misfortunes 35:37 Transition to Manchester City and the Revie Plan 41:17 Billy Bremner's influence 47:59 Revie's Managerial Beginnings at Leeds 49:41 Conclusion and Teaser for the Part Two Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper bring part two into the fascinating and tragic story of Red Star Belgrade's triumphant 1991 European Cup campaign. They discuss Red Star's status as underdogs against Bayern Munich in the semifinal, their intricate path to victory amidst the backdrop of Yugoslavia's impending civil war, and the dramatic events of the legendary matches. This episode highlights not just the team's achievements on the field, but also the historical, cultural, and political context that made their victory the last moment of unity for Yugoslav football before the nation's fragmentation. Additionally, the episode covers the aftermath of the war on Red Star and the once-great football culture of the region. 00:00 Introduction 03:18 Quarter-Final Against Dynamo Dresden 04:43 Political Tensions and the Road to the Semi-Final 08:36 The Complexities of Yugoslavia's Ethnic Divisions 12:36 The Semi-Final Against Bayern Munich 21:13 The Dramatic Second Leg against Bayern Munich 35:43 The Aftermath and Celebrations 36:16 Final against Marseille 44:13 Post-Match Reflections and Legacy 49:43 Impact of War on Red Star Belgrade 53:48 Croatian Football's Success 56:59 Conclusion Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.