It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson explore the history of Red Star Belgrade, focusing on their monumental 1991 European Cup win against a backdrop of Yugoslavia's political turmoil and impending civil war. This episode explores the club's founding, cultural significance, and key players, including the dramatic escape of Miodrag Belodedici from Romania. They also detail the influence of notorious figures like Arkan and the emotional scenes in Belgrade during this turbulent time. Part Two will release on Friday. 00:00 Introduction 06:19 Political Tensions and Football 09:31 The Riot at Maksimir Stadium 16:36 Arkan's Criminal Background 25:04 Arkan's Bonkers Wedding and Return to War 27:23 The Rise and Fall of Arkan 29:39 Red Star Belgrade: Historical Context and Formation 31:13 The Intellectual and Working-Class Roots of Red Star 36:24 Red Star's European Struggles and Triumphs 39:52 The Escape and Signing of Miodrag Belodedici 44:32 The 1991 Season and Key Changes 47:48 Conclusion and Teaser for Part Two Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this episode, co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson bring their second and final part of their series on the Death Match, one of the most mythologized football games of all time. Occurring in Nazi-occupied Kyiv, Ukraine, this match between Start, a team formed mostly of former Dinamo Kiev players, and Flakelf, a Luftwaffe team, has become a symbol of resistance. The hosts discuss the brutal context of the occupation, the complex legacies of the players, and the role football played in these extraordinary historical circumstances. Jonathan Wilson critically examines how much of the narrative is based on verifiable facts and how much may have been post-war Soviet propaganda. This episode provides a nuanced understanding of how football intersected with geopolitics, resistance, and national identity during one of history's darkest periods. 00:00 Introduction to the Death Match Series 01:27 Historical Context: Nazi Occupation and Football 02:26 The Rise of Team Start 03:07 Early Matches and Growing Tensions 04:21 Embarrassing Defeats for Axis Teams 05:28 Public Perception and Propaganda 06:29 The Turning Point: German Concerns 14:13 The First Clash with Flakelf 18:05 Setting the Stage for the Death Match 26:06 The Referee's Influence and Game Dynamics 27:10 Halftime Tensions and Orders to Lose 28:39 Second Half and Controversial Moments 32:35 Post-Match Arrests and Interrogations 35:50 Life in the Prison Camp 43:10 Escape and Kyiv's Liberation 44:33 Legacy and Mythology of the Death Match Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the harrowing tale of 'The Death Match,' a match played under Nazi occupation in Ukraine. They explore the brutal conditions faced by Ukrainian footballers, the formation of a remarkable team, and the resonances with modern-day conflicts. In Part One, learn how football resurfaced amidst atrocities, with bakery manager Yosyp Kordyk forming a team from former stars. The discussions cover the political intricacies and personal tragedies, setting the stage for the match itself. Join us for Part Two on Friday, where the details of the game itself and its far-reaching consequences are revealed. 00:00 Introduction to the Yard Brigade 00:26 Welcome to the Podcast 00:53 The Mythologized Football Match 02:44 Escape to Victory and Its Origins 04:16 Introducing Joseph Cordick 05:49 The Nazi Occupation of Kiev 07:37 The Struggles of Mik Trivi 14:21 The Fall of Kiev and Its Aftermath 25:51 Ukrainian Nationalism and Football Under Nazi Occupation 27:34 The Horrors of Nazi Occupation in Kyiv 29:43 Football as a Means of Normalization 30:32 Resistance and Brutality in Kyiv 31:30 Formation of the Start Football Team 33:06 The Struggles and Symbolism of Playing Football 37:16 The First Match and Its Consequences 39:09 The Complexities of Resistance and Collaboration 49:14 The Aftermath and Public Perception 51:07 Conclusion and Teaser for Part Two Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast hosted by Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson. Today we bring you the fascinating story of the El Dorado League in 1940s Colombia. Discover how the government, amid a brutal civil war and the assassination of liberal leader Jorge Eliécer Gaitán, turned to football to pacify an unsettled population. Learn about the league's extraordinary formation, iconic players like Alfredo Di Stefano and Adolfo Pedernera, and the league's ultimate collapse. Join us for an in-depth look at an astonishing chapter in football history and its lasting impact. 00:00 The Role of Football in Political Control 01:43 The Assassination of Jorge Eliécer Gaitán 03:33 The Aftermath and Civil Unrest 14:12 The Rise of the El Dorado League 22:51 The Impact of Global Events on Colombian Football 29:29 Player Transfers and Union Arguments 30:36 Colombian Football's Golden Era Begins 32:30 The Arrival of International Stars 34:59 Challenges and Discontent Among Players 38:32 The Decline of the El Dorado League 50:00 Political Turmoil and Football's Role 54:54 Legacy and Modern Parallels Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. After Chelsea's Club World Cup win at the weekend, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by author Nick Purewal, who discusses his book Sanctioned: The Inside Story of the Sale of Chelsea FC about the sanctioning of Roman Abramovich and the sale of Chelsea FC. Here we give a unique insight into the unprecedented chaos surrounding Chelsea during their 2022 sale, including behind-the-scenes details of Abramovich's involvement in peace talks between Russia and Ukraine, a near-poisoning event, and the tumultuous sale process of the club that led to current owner Todd Boehly buying the club. 00:00 Introduction 04:51 Abramovich's Role and the War's Impact 07:35 The Rapid Downfall and Sanctions 16:04 Abramovich's Involvement in Peace Talks 19:28 The Poisoning Incident 26:10 Skepticism and Vindication 29:52 Legal Confusion and Government Challenges 31:47 Chelsea's Struggles Under Sanctions 35:23 The High-Stakes Sale Process 38:48 The Bidding War Heats Up 44:26 Jim Ratcliffe's Last-Minute Bid 50:10 The Aftermath and Reflections Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In a week where we marked our 100th episode, we bring you the quiz between our podcast It Was What It Was against Football Cliches. Without co-host Rob Draper, It Was What It Was brought in John Brewin alongside producer Pat Moore to join Jonathan Wilson in an epic battle against Football Cliches' Adam Hurrey, Charlie Eccleshare and David Walker. Three rounds, five questions in each round and a final round of Premier League hunting grounds, in a classic battle for the ages! If you enjoyed the podcast you can find Football Cliches episodes here: https://podfollow.com/new-football-cliches Please note: This episode was released by our opponents in February 2025. Please do review, comment and subscribe to It Was What It Was. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. To mark our 100th episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper revisit one of the game’s true pioneers: Herbert Chapman. Long before his Arsenal legacy, Chapman transformed Huddersfield Town in the 1920s, laying the groundwork for modern football and guiding them to become the first club to win three consecutive top-flight league titles. A century later, Jonathan and Rob delve into the tactical innovations, strategic thinking, and leadership that defined Chapman’s revolutionary approach. This episode brings Huddersfield’s golden era to life—and shows how Chapman’s influence still echoes through the game today, both on and off the pitch. 00:00 Introduction and Milestone Celebration 01:13 Herbert Chapman's Early Life and Career 03:31 Chapman's Tactical Innovations 11:19 Leeds City and Wartime Contributions 22:07 Post-War Challenges and Huddersfield Opportunity 27:44 Brighton's Replay and the Stuffed Donkey Incident 28:49 The Controversial FA Cup Final 30:33 Chapman's Tactical Innovations 34:00 Huddersfield's Rise to Glory 41:52 The Closest Title Race Ever? 46:32 Chapman's Legacy and Move to Arsenal 48:33 Conclusion and Reflections on Chapman's Impact Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In the second and final episode of our exploration into Abu Dhabi's takeover of Manchester City, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper uncover the strategic, political, and historical forces behind one of the most transformative moves in modern football. Incorporating expert commentary from Dr. Chris Davison, author of Abu Dhabi: Oil and Beyond, this episode explores how a state-led investment in a football club became a powerful tool of international diplomacy. We trace the roots of Abu Dhabi’s global ambitions back to the oil boom of the 1970s and '80s, the legacy of Sheikh Zayed’s leadership, and the shifting political landscape following his death in 2004. We also examine the rise of Sheikh Mansour, the tightening grip of autocracy, and the human rights questions that shadow this high-stakes project. From geopolitics in the Arab world to influence across Africa and the Indian subcontinent. 00:00 Introduction 01:30 The Foundation of UAE and Its Growth 02:57 Sheikh Zayed's Vision and Leadership 05:24 The Role of Women and Modernisation 08:37 The Al Nahyan Family Dynamics 12:47 The Manchester City Takeover 15:39 The Impact and Strategy Behind the Takeover 22:41 The Strategic Importance of Qatar and Abu Dhabi 23:29 Human Rights Concerns in Abu Dhabi 28:52 Worker Rights and Personal Accounts 31:38 The Yemeni War and Foreign Policy 34:59 Manchester City's Aggressive Strategy 36:19 Comparing Strategies: Abu Dhabi vs. Qatar 44:23 The Future of Manchester City 46:29 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore the complex history behind the Abu Dhabi takeover of Manchester City. The discussion begins with a chilling recount of a 1984 assassination of UAE ambassador Khalifa Ahmad Mubarak, claimed by the Arab Revolutionary Brigades. This incident serves as a critical backdrop for understanding the motivations and geopolitical factors influencing contemporary Middle Eastern involvement in global sports. Jonathan and Rob look into the precarious position of Abu Dhabi, the history of the UAE's formation, and the significant figures like Khaldoon Al Barak and Sheikh Zed, shedding light on why Abu Dhabi has ventured into the world of football ownership and how this has reshaped not just Manchester City but football in general. Join us on Friday for Part Two. 00:00 Tragic Assassination in Paris 00:54 Introduction to the Podcast 01:03 The Abu Dhabi Takeover of Manchester City 03:21 Comparing Abramovich and Sheik Mansour 04:29 The Shock of the 2008 Takeover 05:09 The Initial Skepticism and Rabino Signing 07:21 The Role of Solomon Al Faim 09:26 The Importance of Kaldoon Al Mubarak 15:41 The Aggressive Approach to Regulation 22:34 Massacre at Saia and Its Impact 24:25 Khaldoon Al Mubarak's Background 27:19 Transformation of Abu Dhabi 32:23 Discovery of Oil and Its Implications 43:19 Formation of the United Arab Emirates 44:50 Challenges from Regional Powers 45:56 Conclusion and Teaser for Part Two Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, Jonathan and Rob look into the tragic and fascinating latter years of Diego Maradona's professional football career during the 1990s. Jonathan and Rob explore Maradona's struggles with cocaine addiction, legal troubles, and numerous attempts to revive his career amidst a national crisis for Argentina's football team. From his return to his parents' hometown to his controversial time at the 1994 World Cup, follow Maradona's tumultuous journey as he battles to maintain his footballing legacy. Please rate, review, and recommend the podcast. 00:00 Introduction to Argentina's Turbulent Football History 00:33 Diego Maradona's Struggles and Return 01:09 Argentina's National Team Crisis 01:56 Maradona's Controversial Comeback 05:01 Challenges with Argentine Football Culture 10:38 Maradona's Legal and Personal Battles 16:56 Road to the 1994 World Cup 24:41 Maradona's Defense and Consequences 26:16 Public Reaction and Media Coverage 27:30 Argentinian Utopianism and Football 31:12 Maradona's Struggles and Ban 36:38 Attempted Comeback and Managerial Stints 38:16 Final Matches and Retirement 48:22 Legacy and Future Stories Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper bring a two-part special focussing on the decline of one of the greatest footballers ever, Diego Maradona. In part one, our co-hosts talk about Maradona's struggles with drug addiction, failed drug tests, and his eventual 15-month ban from football after a positive cocaine test in 1991. Despite these challenges, Maradona's impact on both the Napoli and Argentina national teams remained significant. Discover the infamous 5-0 defeat of Argentina by Colombia in 1993 and explore why the nation clamoured for Maradona's return to save their 1994 World Cup hopes. The episode provides a comprehensive look at Maradona's turbulent years leading up to his attempts at making a comeback. Join us on Friday for Part Two. 00:00 Introduction and Context 00:30 The Decline of Diego Maradona 02:01 The Infamous Argentina vs. Colombia Match 04:57 The Fallout and National Disgrace 10:48 Maradona's Cultural Significance 16:04 Maradona's Turbulent Life in Naples 23:51 Maradona's Decline and Struggles with Fitness 25:19 Cocaine Scandal and Legal Troubles 26:53 The Fake Penis Incident and Drug Test 30:53 Maradona's Radical Detox and Support System 34:17 Political Context and Maradona's Popularity 39:52 Return to Football and Move to Sevilla 44:04 Struggles in Sevilla and Final Decline 47:52 Personal Breakdown and Return to Roots Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. With the Club World Cup underway, we wrap up the week with Part Two of our Origin Story series, focusing on Manchester United’s chaotic 2000 Club World Cup campaign in Brazil. Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper unpack United’s controversial decision to withdraw from the FA Cup, the disorganised nature of the tournament, and the fiery clash between European entitlement and South American intensity. Plus, we'll hear about the now-legendary story of Roy Keane, Teddy Sheringham, and Nicky Butt hang gliding over Rio - doing their best to stay out of sight of Sir Alex Ferguson! If you're enjoying It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! And don't forget to subscribe to our new show Stick to Cricket, wherever you get your podcasts! 00:00 English Expectations and Brazilian Strength 00:48 Introduction to the Double History Podcast 00:58 The Infamous 2000 Club World Cup 02:01 FIFA's Ambitions and the Club World Cup 03:36 The Controversial Decision: Manchester United's Dilemma 04:27 Global Participation and FIFA's Motivations 07:09 Political Pressures and England's World Cup Bid 22:09 Manchester United's PR Disaster in Brazil 25:18 The Tournament Begins: Double Header in Sao Paulo 26:17 The Shabby Stadium and Initial Matches 27:16 David Beckham's Red Card Incident 28:22 United's Aloof Image and Public Relations Disaster 29:26 Tournament Progress and Group Stage Results 30:07 Vasco's Dominance Over Manchester United 33:11 Gary Neville's Struggles and Team Support 38:37 United's PR Disaster in Rio 40:13 Impact on United's Season and Future Tournaments 42:06 Reflections on the Club World Cup 50:43 Concluding Thoughts and Farewell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, with the Club World Cup underway, Rob and Jonathan delve into its chaotic and often violent origins! They explore how the early intercontinental tournaments were organised, from the first attempts in the late 19th century to the ultimate establishment of the Toyota Cup. We'll hear about infamous clashes between Celtic and Racing Club, and Manchester United and Estudiantes. Join us for part two on Friday, where we continue the journey into the modern era of the tournament and discuss the controversial 32-team format in the USA. (Apologies for a few audio issues with Rob's mic this week!) 00:00 Introduction and Financial Woes 00:21 The Club World Cup: Origins and Early Years 01:31 Early International Competitions 03:59 The Quest for a World Champion 08:07 The First Recognized World Club Tournament 13:41 The Sir Thomas Lipton Trophy 16:50 The Copa Rio: A New Era 23:16 Controversial Withdrawal and Unsatisfactory Victory 23:37 Rebranding and Decline of the Tournament 24:02 Violence and Domestic Dominance 25:01 The Little World Cup in Venezuela 26:46 The International Soccer League in the US 28:47 European and South American Club Competitions 30:45 The Birth of the Intercontinental Cup 35:34 Violence and Controversy in the Intercontinental Cup 41:36 Decline of the Intercontinental Cup 44:06 The Toyota Cup Era 45:23 The Expanded Club World Cup 46:33 Conclusion and Teaser for Part Two Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Please note: Apologies for the audio issues in the first 10 minutes of the show. Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast, with co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson. Today we are joined by special guest David Owen, former sports editor of the Financial Times and author of multiple books on sports history. In this episode, the trio delves deep into the significant alteration of the offside rule on June 13, 1925, and how this monumental change impacted football. From the tactical transformations it spurred, like the introduction of the WM formation and the rise of the centre half role, to its broader effects on the game's entertainment value and popularity, the discussion covers it all. Join us as we explore one of the most pivotal adjustments in football history and its lasting legacy. 00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome 01:08 The 1925 Offside Rule Change 02:21 Historical Context of Offside Rule 02:55 Early 20th Century Offside Tactics 05:01 Impact of the 1925 Rule Change 12:27 Adaptations and Innovations 19:04 Immediate Effects in England 26:03 Notable Goal Scoring Feats 27:42 Astonishing Cup Run and Relegation Drama 29:05 Impact of the 1925 Offside Law Change 32:03 Defensive Strategies and Adaptations 34:15 Tactical Innovations and the WM Formation 42:04 Evolution of Player Roles and Transfer Market 53:32 Global Differences and Final Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In today’s episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore one of the most powerful stories in football history: Zambia’s remarkable triumph at the 2012 Africa Cup of Nations. Jonathan, who covered the 2012 tournament on the ground, shares firsthand reflections of what he calls the most emotional press box moment he’s ever experienced. Nineteen years after a devastating plane crash claimed the lives of their national squad, Zambia rose from the ashes to claim continental glory. This episode retraces their journey - from the tragedy off the coast of Gabon in 1993, the rebuilding efforts led by legendary captain Kalusha Bwalya, right through to their unforgettable victory on penalties in the very same country that witnessed their darkest hour. 00:00 The Final Match: A Battle Beyond the Pitch 00:15 Introduction to an Inspiring and Tragic Football Story 00:36 Zambia's Uplifting Victory After Tragedy 02:26 The 1993 Plane Crash: A National Tragedy 04:37 Zambia's Football Rise in the Late 80s 08:15 The Aftermath of the Crash and the Struggle for Resources 18:42 Rebuilding the Team: The Role of Kaia and New Coaches 24:01 The 2012 African Cup of Nations Journey 25:06 The Quarterfinals and Beyond 27:01 Gabon vs. Mali: A Penalty Heartbreak 27:30 Unexpected Journey to Bata 31:12 Ghana's Complacency and Zambia's Rise 38:38 The Emotional Beach Ceremony 40:27 The Dramatic Final Against Ivory Coast 51:10 Zambia's Historic Victory 52:16 Reflecting on the Significance Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore the remarkable life and career of Luis Enrique, fresh off delivering Paris Saint-Germain’s first-ever Champions League title. From leading Barcelona to a historic treble in 2015 to now rewriting PSG's narrative in Europe, Enrique’s managerial legacy is already carved into footballing folklore. But behind the silverware lies a deeply personal story; one of resilience, heartbreak, and unshakable determination. In 2019, Enrique stepped away from football during his time as Spain’s national team coach after the tragic death of his 9-year-old daughter, Xana, who lost her battle with bone cancer. The podcast reflects on how he faced unimaginable grief and later returned to the sidelines with a renewed sense of focus, channeling his pain into purpose. We also explore the lesser-known side of Enrique — the ultramarathon runner, the iron-willed competitor, and the fitness fanatic who demanded relentless physical commitment from his players. His obsession with endurance has shaped not only the way his teams play but also the culture he instills: high pressing, relentless movement, and mental toughness. Where does Luis Enrique’s legacy stand now? From Gijón to Camp Nou to Paris, and from personal tragedy to professional triumph — this is a story of more than just football. It’s about the making of a modern great. 0:00 Introduction and Personal Reflection 00:32 Luis Enrique's Early Life and Background 04:15 Football Beginnings and Early Career 07:03 Transition to Real Madrid and Barcelona 16:06 International Career and Notable Incidents 22:52 Post-Playing Career and Coaching Beginnings 29:07 Luis Enrique's Coaching Journey 31:01 Barcelona's Missed Opportunity with Luis Enrique 32:36 Luis Enrique's Success at Celta Vigo 32:49 Barcelona's Second Chance with Luis Enrique 35:41 The Messi Conundrum 37:54 Luis Enrique's Triumphs and Challenges at Barcelona 44:53 The Tragic Loss of Luis Enrique's Daughter 47:15 Return to the Spanish National Team 52:26 Luis Enrique's Tenure at PSG 01:00:36 The Emotional Impact of Luis Enrique's Journey 01:02:41 Conclusion and Reflections Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore a landmark moment in the sport: Brazil, for the first time in its storied history, has appointed a sole foreign manager, Carlo Ancelotti. As he prepares to lead the Seleção in his first match on Friday against Ecuador, the episode unpacks the significance of his move to Brazil. They examine Ancelotti’s coaching philosophy, tracing its roots to his mentor Nils Liedholm and the enduring influence of Hungarian football. The conversation spans decades and continents—from the intellectual cafés of Budapest to the shifting tactical landscape of South America. Along the way, they reflect on the evolution of Brazilian coaching and the global reach of Hungarian tactical innovation. Join them for a compelling look at the past, present, and future of football strategy, and discover how Ancelotti’s arrival in Brazil could be a return to their roots. 00:00 Introduction and Personal Anecdotes 00:37 Historic Day for Brazil: Foreign Manager Appointed 01:15 Carlo Ancelotti's Coaching Philosophy 01:55 Brazil's Foreign Coaching History 04:56 The Dominance of Argentinian Coaches in South America 06:04 Brazilian Football's Tactical Evolution 10:30 Hungarian Influence on Brazilian Football 20:56 Brazil's World Cup Preparations and Challenges 26:13 Brazil's Struggles Against European Teams 27:49 Modern Era: Brazil's Coaching Crisis 29:11 Analysing the Decline of Brazilian Football 30:01 The Influence of European Coaching 30:22 The Role of Brazilian Midfielders 30:37 Recent Brazilian Coaches and Their Struggles 31:38 The Turning Point: Italy 1982 32:10 Introduction to Carlo Ancelotti's Appointment 32:49 Carlo Ancelotti's Mentorship and Legacy 35:27 The Hungarian Influence on Modern Football 38:33 The Swedish Connection and Coaching Philosophy 40:22 The Rise of IFK Norrköping 48:28 The Formation of the Gre-No-Li Trio 51:27 Carlo Ancelotti's Impact on Brazilian Football 55:12 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this episode, Jonathan and Rob explore the history of Paris Saint-Germain ahead of their Champions League final against Inter Milan. Join us as we uncover the intriguing journey of PSG - and their transformation from a club with little history to a European powerhouse. Rob and Jonathan explore the significant matches, the controversial ownership and the club's elusive quest for Champions League glory. For more build-up to the Champions League Final - listen to our episode on Inter Milan - The Birth of the Catenaccio - released earlier this week. 00:00 Introduction to the Football History Podcast 01:08 PSG's Humble Beginnings 02:59 The Formation of PSG 04:30 Challenges and Controversies 06:53 The Role of Media and Public Support 08:48 The Birth of Paris Saint-Germain 11:10 The Struggle for Identity 14:38 The Rise of PSG 20:12 Fashion and Football: The Daniel Hechter Era 25:27 Financial Misconduct in French Football 26:15 PSG's Rise in the 1980s 27:20 Early European Struggles 28:41 Financial Turmoil and Media Takeover 30:32 Golden Years and European Semi-Final Curse 33:31 Qatari Takeover and Controversies 41:45 Branding and Big Signings 46:31 Modern Challenges and Future Prospects 50:12 Conclusion and Champions League final thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to this Champions League special episode of It Was What It Was with hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson. In this episode, they dive deep into the rich tactical history of Inter Milan, tracing the origins and impact of the famous Catenaccio system introduced by legendary coach Helenio Herrera in the 1960s. They explore Herrera's significant influence on modern football management, his controversial methods, and the eventual decline of his tactical system. Additionally, the hosts draw parallels between Herrera's era and Inter Milan's current approach under Simone Inzaghi, highlighting how historical tactics still resonate today as they face PSG in Join us at the end of the week as we turn our attention to PSG's history, as they look to win the Champions League for the first time. 00:00 Introduction 00:19 Champions League Special: Setting the Scene 00:34 Helena Herrera: The Tactical Genius 01:56 The Birth of Catenaccio 02:56 Karl Rappan and the Swiss Influence 08:43 Catenaccio's Evolution in Italy 13:31 The Rise of Inter Milan 19:02 Herrera's Early Career and Philosophy 27:31 Herrera's Impact at Barcelona 29:54 Transition to Inter Milan 30:07 Inter's Turbulent Coaching History 30:39 Helenio Herrera's Arrival and Impact 31:17 Herrera's Strict Regimen and Control 34:55 Tactical Innovations and Success 42:06 Controversies and Criticisms 49:31 The Decline of Herrera's Inter 56:50 Legacy and Modern Comparisons 01:02:19 Conclusion and Upcoming Content Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper focus on the 1984/85 season that changed English football, with Part One focussing on the numerous fan violence incidents then the tragedy of the Bradford fire as 56 fans lost their lives. Today, in part two, Tony Evans, former sports editor at The Times and author of 'Two Tribes' and 'Far Foreign Land' joins the show to talk about Heysel. In this episode, Tony Evans shares his harrowing experiences and poignant reflections on the Heysel Stadium disaster of 1985, when 39 football fans tragically lost their lives during the European Cup Final between Liverpool and Juventus. The discussion covers the chaotic events leading up to the disaster, the atmosphere in Brussels, and the aftermath, both immediate and long-term, for football and fan culture. Don't miss this in-depth exploration of one of the darkest days in football history. 00:00 Introducing the Podcast and Special Guest Tony Evans 02:15 Liverpool in 1985: A City and Club in Turmoil 02:30 The Violent Year: Football and Social Unrest 05:09 The Day of the Heysel Disaster: Personal Accounts 07:46 Chaos in Brussels: The Build-Up to Tragedy 16:57 The Collapse: Mismanagement and Miscommunication 27:45 The Aftermath: Reactions and Reflections 30:35 The Aftermath of the Tragedy 31:43 Personal Recollections and Impact 32:26 Documentary Insights and Victim Stories 34:56 Chaos and Confusion at the Stadium 38:25 The Decision to Continue the Game 49:08 Reflections on Fan Behaviour and Consequences 51:27 The Broader Context and Political Reactions 53:48 Long-term Changes in Football Culture 58:38 Concluding Thoughts on the Tragedy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was When It Was, the football history podcast. This week we're focussing on the 1984-85 footballing season - arguably the bleakest time in English football history - that changed the game forever. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper begin the first of two episodes covering the violence, tragedy, and upheaval of this period and the wider context of football hooliganism in the first half, whilst the second half of part one pays tribute to the horrific Bradford Fire that claimed 56 lives 40 years ago. Explore gripping firsthand accounts, the reactions of key figures, and the societal and institutional issues that plagued the sport, leading to safety measures and ultimately, a transformation in football culture. Join us on Friday as we are joined by Tony Evans to talk about the Heysel tragedy that happened at the end of May in 1985. 00:00 Introduction to the Podcast 01:09 Reflecting on the 1984-85 Season 02:47 The Bradford Fire Tragedy 04:00 Football's Decrepit Stadiums 06:31 Chelsea vs. Sunderland: Milk Cup Semi-Final Chaos 12:36 Luton vs. Millwall: FA Cup Violence 26:35 Birmingham vs. Leeds: Championship Decider Mayhem 29:10 Fans Fight Back and Prolonged Chaos 30:52 Medieval Fortress and Perimeter Fences 31:59 Racism and Aggression in Football Culture 33:15 Introduction to the Bradford Fire 35:04 The Start of the Fire and Initial Reactions 36:16 Rapid Escalation and Desperate Attempts to Escape 38:20 Heartbreaking Personal Accounts and Immediate Aftermath 47:16 Investigations and Controversies 50:57 Negligence and Legal Consequences 57:30 Broader Implications and Future Changes 59:24 Conclusion and Preview of Next Episode Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast! Join co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper as they welcome special guest Richard Hough, author of 'Verona Capone, the Miracle of 85'. In this episode, Richard delves into the extraordinary story of Hellas Verona's incredible 1984-85 Serie A title win. From the chaotic Italian football landscape of the 1980s, managerial masterstrokes, and key foreign signings, to the unforgettable moments and lasting impact on the city of Verona, this episode is a deep dive into one of football's most romantic underdog stories. Join us as we explore how a small provincial team conquered giants like AC Milan and Juventus to achieve an unexpected and historic league victory. 00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome 01:02 Setting the Scene: 1980s Italian Football 02:21 Verona's Rise to Glory 03:28 Economic and Social Context 05:08 Key Players and Strategic Moves 12:15 Tactical Insights and Coaching Philosophy 15:15 Foreign Players and Their Impact 22:55 The Perfect Season Opener 25:04 The Opening Goal and Season Kickoff 25:29 Verona's Iconic Moments and Key Players 30:05 The Turning Point in the Season 33:01 The Final Stretch to the Title 40:42 Celebrations and Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. It’s FA Cup final week, with Manchester City set to take on Crystal Palace at Wembley. In this episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper revisit the dramatic story of Palace’s remarkable run to the 1990 FA Cup Final. Just months after a crushing 9-0 defeat to Liverpool, Crystal Palace stunned the same side in a sensational 4-3 semi-final — a match still regarded as one of the greatest in FA Cup history. That victory set up a final against Sir Alex Ferguson’s Manchester United, who, at the time, were still chasing their first trophy under his management. Today, we delve into where Crystal Palace stood as a club in 1990, explore their tactical shifts, highlight standout performances — especially the impact of Ian Wright — and examine Manchester United’s situation under Ferguson, including the pivotal moments that led to his first silverware with the club. We also examine whether Palace could shock Manchester City and finally win the FA Cup for the first time in their history. Chapters 00:00 Introduction 02:23 Crystal Palace's Journey to the Semis 03:37 Televised Semifinals and Hillsborough's Impact 11:55 Crystal Palace's Tactical Shift 15:17 The Dramatic Semifinal Match 20:39 Crystal Palace's Historic FA Cup Final 21:06 Manchester United's Journey to the 1990 FA Cup Final 25:55 Ian Wright's Miraculous Comeback 28:35 The Replay and Ferguson's First Trophy 31:56 Comparing Crystal Palace Eras 36:05 Can Crystal Palace Upset Manchester City? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In today's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper look back on the rich history of Goodison Park, Everton's storied home ground, as it approaches its final days. From setting the history into the building of the iconic stadium to picking out unforgettable matches to legendary players, relive iconic moments such as Dixie Dean's record-setting 60 goals in one season, Eusebio's praise at the 1966 World Cup, the famous 1994 relegation battle against Wimbledon and Wayne Rooney's spectacular goal against Arsenal. Join us as we celebrate the legacy of one of England's most beloved football stadiums. What's your favourite Goodison Park memory? Get in touch on @ItWasPod on X. Please don't forget to leave a review and recommend to your friends! 00:00 Introduction and Opening Remarks 00:33 The Significance of Goodison Park 01:44 Architectural and Historical Insights 04:32 Memorable Matches and Moments 07:11 Archibald Leitch's Legacy 26:15 Everton's last day survival in 1994 and Match-Fixing Scandal 29:33 The1966 World Cup 40:34 Dixie Dean's 60th Goal of the season 47:27 Wayne Rooney's Stunning Debut Goal 49:44 Farewell to Goodison Park Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper speak of the remarkable journey of Harry Kane, who recently clinched the Bundesliga title with Bayern Munich; the first trophy in his career. Recounting his early days at Arsenal youth, to multiple rejections, and loan spells that nearly derailed his career, the episode highlights Kane’s undeterred determination and resilience. Discover how pivotal moments and key influences, such as Mauricio Pochettino and a documentary on Tom Brady, transformed him into one of football’s greatest strikers. We end with a quiz, as Rob tests Jonathan's knowledge of British and Irish players who won major league titles abroad! 00:00 Introduction: A Childhood Memory 00:35 The Arsenal Release: A Turning Point 00:43 Celebrating Harry Kane's Achievements 01:02 The Early Struggles and Resilience 02:36 Harry Kane's Background and Family 03:06 Youth Football Journey 05:38 Challenges and Determination 14:27 Loan Spells and Growth 18:40 Millwall Experience and Growing Up 21:34 Norwich Loan: A Tough Period 27:16 Unexpected Laughter and Player Comparisons 28:02 Struggles at Leicester City 29:36 Turning Point: The Tom Brady Inspiration 31:13 Breakthrough Under Sherwood 32:33 Skepticism and Early Success 35:04 Pochettino's Influence and Physical Transformation 38:36 Near Misses and Final Disappointments 43:12 Legacy and Comparisons with Other Greats 47:43 Quiz on British and Irish Players Abroad 52:59 Conclusion and Reflections on Harry Kane's Career Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week’s episode, we turn our attention to Liverpool’s extraordinary journey through their history, culminating in Arne Slot’s Premier League title-winning side. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper trace the club’s legacy from its early 20th-century triumphs to modern-day glory. They explore the tactical revolutions under legendary managers like Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley, the brilliance of iconic players in Kenny Dalglish and Ian Rush, and the resurgence under Jürgen Klopp. The episode also highlights how Arne Slot has carried that legacy forward, building on the foundations laid by his predecessors. Where does the 2024/25 Liverpool title winners rank amongst the club's greatest ever teams? Get in touch with @ItWasPod on X to let us know! 00:00 Introduction to Liverpool's Journey 01:42 Early Liverpool Champions: 1901-1923 02:42 The Impact of Tom Watson 06:24 Liverpool's Defensive Strengths 07:46 Post-War Liverpool: Nutrition and Success 08:46 The Rise of Billy Liddell 10:17 Jack Balmer's Unlikely Heroics 15:20 Liverpool's First Five Titles 16:34 Bill Shankly's Legacy 20:55 Bob Paisley's Tactical Brilliance 26:18 Liverpool's Dominance in the Late 70s 27:12 Liverpool's Dominant Back Four 27:52 Dalglish vs. Keegan: Who's Better? 29:08 The Greatest Liverpool Side of All Time? 29:54 European Cup Draw and Unfortunate Knockout 33:29 Transition to the Kenny Dalglish Era 37:53 Impact of Hillsborough and the 1989 Season 41:55 Liverpool's Modern Era and Klopp's Influence 46:46 Future Prospects and Final Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Liverpool wrapped up their 20th English league title at the weekend, so today co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper focus on the fascinating career of manager Arne Slot who has won the Premier League at his first attempt at Anfield. Beginning with his unique upbringing in a football-centric Dutch Bible Belt town, we explore how watching his father coach from a young age shaped Slot's tactical mind, travel through his early playing days, his reputation as a tactician, and his impressive managerial stints that led him to win the Eredivisie with Feyenoord and now the Premier League with Liverpool. On Friday, Jonathan and Rob will assess where Slot's Liverpool title winners sit in Liverpool's glorious history. 00:00 Introduction: A Coach's Son 00:40 Early Life and Background of Arne Slot 01:26 The Dutch Football Culture 03:01 Influence of Johan Cruyff and Total Football 05:02 Arne Slot's Youth and Early Football Education 07:11 Professional Career Beginnings 13:40 Tactical Innovations and Coaching Philosophy 21:58 The Early Coaching Journey of Arne Slot 23:14 Challenges and Successes at Cambuur 25:56 Influence of Pep Guardiola and Data Analytics 29:10 Rise at AZ Alkmaar 34:43 Success at Feyenoord and Coaching Style 43:45 Legacy and Future Prospects Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. It's time for Part Two of Pep vs Jose! As Barcelona and Inter prepare to face off once again in this year’s Champions League semi-final, we look back at the original - a tie that shaped modern football. Guardiola vs Mourinho. All-out attack vs. tactical defiance. Ideology, rivalry - maybe even good vs. evil? Fifteen years ago, Pep’s all-conquering Barcelona met Jose's Inter Milan in a Champions League semi-final that didn’t just decide who reached the final - it helped define a footballing era. Having set the scene in part one, Rob and Jonathan relive the incredible semi-final battles, where Mourinho would ultimately dethrone Guardiola in an incredible second-leg at the Nou Camp - which saw a controversial sending off, late drama and an iconic pitch celebration. If you enjoyed the podcast please subscribe and rate. 00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene 00:45 The Clash of Philosophies: Mourinho vs. Guardiola 01:32 The Tactical Battle Begins 04:32 The Volcano Eruption and Its Impact 10:24 First Leg Highlights and Analysis 13:18 Ibrahimović's Conflict and Mourinho's Mind Games 18:06 The Build-Up to the Second Leg 25:23 The Myth of the Decision 25:41 The Controversial Red Card 26:54 Conspiracy Theories and Psychological Influence 27:52 The Clash of Good vs. Evil 28:34 Tactical Fouling and Pep's Cynical Side 29:59 Marina's Critique of Barcelona's Tactics 31:37 Inter's Defensive Masterclass 34:13 The Struggle Against Possession Football 36:38 The Final Moments and Disallowed Goal 40:03 Marino's Triumphant Celebration 43:16 The Aftermath and Legacy 46:43 The Tactical Evolution in Football 48:58 The Importance of Non-Possession Football 50:28 Conclusion and Reflections Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was. As Barcelona and Inter prepare to face off once again in this year’s Champions League semi-final, we look back at the original - a tie that shaped modern football. Pep Guardiola vs. José Mourinho. All-out attack vs. tactical defiance. Ideology, rivalry - maybe even good vs. evil? Fifteen years ago, Pep’s all-conquering Barcelona met Mourinho’s Inter Milan in a Champions League semi-final that didn’t just decide who reached the final - it helped define a footballing era. In Part One, Rob and Jonathan set the scene: how Mourinho’s Inter came to challenge the most dominant team in the world, the tactics he used, the battles he fought in Italy, and how both sides arrived at this collision point chasing domestic and European glory. Part Two drops Friday, where Rob and Jonathan break down the epic semi-final itself. 00:00 Barcelona's Football Perfection 01:48 Mourinho vs. Guardiola: A Rivalry Begins 02:47 The Dark Side of Mourinho 03:25 Star Wars Analogies and Football Tactics 06:53 Mourinho's Seven-Point Plan 07:45 Mourinho's Philosophy and Evolution 08:43 Mourinho's Journey to Inter Milan 09:58 Cultural Expectations and Pragmatic Football 12:23 Mourinho's Press Conference Antics 13:44 Mourinho's Linguistic Brilliance 14:49 Mourinho's Training Philosophy 20:04 Key Matches and Tactical Shifts 21:16 Mourinho's First Season at Inter 22:27 Transfer Drama: Stars on the Move 23:51 Barcelona's Dominance and Challenges 26:40 Inter's Journey to the Semifinals 28:57 Mourinho's Tactical Mastery 32:29 Controversies and Confrontations 40:24 The Road to the Semifinals 43:57 Setting the Stage for the Epic Semifinal Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. It's time for part two of our look at the unexpected role a horse would play in the controversial takeover of Manchester United by the Glazer family. The episode covers the period of the Glazer acquisition, the impact of their ownership, and the financial manoeuvres that transformed the club. From Alex Ferguson's complicated relationship with the Glazers to the missed opportunities and recruitment challenges that followed, this episode gives an in-depth look at how Manchester United's fate was sealed - and the horse that might have started it all! 00:00 The Decline of Manchester United: A 20-Year Journey 00:20 Introduction to the Football History Podcast 00:48 The Gibraltar Incident and Its Fallout 01:26 The Glazers' Takeover: A Turning Point 02:24 The Financial Strategy of the Glazers 02:54 The Early Signs of Trouble 03:58 The Glazers' Background and Business Practices 04:48 The Impact of Global Capital on Football 06:24 The Glazers' Vision and Strategy 08:43 The Financial Mechanics of the Takeover 10:41 The Role of Debt in Modern Football 11:54 The Glazers' Financial Maneuvering 14:32 The Aftermath and Long-Term Consequences 16:15 The Glazers' Legacy and Future Implications 18:26 The Financial Crisis and Its Impact on Football 20:57 The Leveraged Buyout Explained 22:52 The Final Stages of the Takeover 30:47 The Glazer Takeover and Initial Success 31:17 Fan Protests and Opposition 34:52 Financial Strain and Missed Opportunities 37:32 The Role of Ed Woodward 43:18 Transfer Market Failures 46:15 Managerial Missteps 53:37 The Glazers' Disconnect and Conclusion Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In today's episode, hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by journalist David Walsh to explore how the modern fortunes of Manchester United are intertwined with one of the greatest racehorses in history. This is the extraordinary story of Rock of Gibraltar, the famed racehorse part-owned by Sir Alex Ferguson - and how his connections and relationships with John Magnier, and JP McManus would ultimately impact the Glazers' takeover of Manchester United. David Walsh shares insider details from his investigative work on the story, making this one of the most fascinating sports sagas of recent times. Tune in on Friday for part two, and the implications of the Glazers' takeover - and Manchester United's decline. 00:00 The Tale of the Lost Kingdom 00:25 Introduction to the Podcast and Special Guest 00:35 The Story of Rock of Gibraltar 01:25 David Walsh's Insights 02:28 The Connection Between Sir Alex Ferguson and John Magner 07:36 The Rise of Rock of Gibraltar 17:21 The Dispute Over Ownership 19:26 The Financial Implications 29:04 Ownership Dispute and Legal Battle 29:52 High Court Drama and Stakeholder Tensions 30:50 Public Fallout and Media Frenzy 34:02 Settlement and Aftermath 38:39 The Glazers' Takeover 41:35 Reflecting on Missed Opportunities 49:45 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was for part two of our interview with Brendan Batson, a trailblazer in English football. Brendon tells Jonathan and Rob about his impactful time at West Bromwich Albion as part of the iconic 'Three Degrees' with Cyrille Regis and Laurie Cunningham. We discuss his teammates, the tragic losses and his work to combat racism. Brendon also gives us an insight into the personal impact of his former manager Ron Atkinson's notorious comments on live television. 00:00 Introduction and Overview 01:07 Brendan Batson's Early Career and Challenges 03:00 The China Tour Experience 06:20 The Three Degrees Phenomenon 12:32 Impact and Legacy of Black Players 18:37 Knee Injury and Career Transition 20:10 Coaching Courses and Philosophies 24:24 The Evolution of a Coaching Philosophy 24:42 The One-Size-Fits-All Approach 25:50 Player Welfare and Career Transitions 27:59 Tragic Losses and Their Impact 28:38 The Legacy of Laurie Cunningham 32:33 Racism in Football: A Personal Betrayal 38:20 The Complexity of Racism in Football 41:21 The Fight Against Racism: Past and Present 46:17 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. This week Jonathan and Rob welcome special guest Brendan Batson, a former Arsenal, Cambridge, and West Brom player - who made a significant impact on British social and footballing history. Part one focuses on Batson's early life in Grenada and Trinidad, his challenges adapting to the British climate in the 1960s, and becoming Arsenal's first black player. Join us for part two on Friday where Brendan recalls his time at West Brom - and the birth of the famous 'Three Degrees'. 00:00 Introduction and Special Guest Announcement 01:21 Brendan Batson's Early Life and Migration to England 03:18 Adapting to Life in England and Discovering Football 06:34 Challenges and Racism in Early Years 11:48 The Windrush Generation and Social Context 14:48 Racism in Football and the National Front 19:13 Conclusion of Part One 20:00 Scouted by Arsenal: The Beginning of a Football Journey 21:23 Challenges and Triumphs: Early Arsenal Days 22:38 Facing Racism: The Harsh Realities of the 60s and 70s 25:06 Breaking Barriers: Becoming Arsenal's First Black Player 27:44 Struggles with Racism on the Field 31:36 Guidance and Growth: Learning to Cope 34:32 Career Progression: From Arsenal to Cambridge and Beyond 36:33 Ron Atkinson's Influence: A Turning Point 37:41 Conclusion: Reflecting on a Pioneering Career Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, and part two of our look at Cameroon’s extraordinary journey at the 1990 World Cup. With their stunning opening victory against defending champions Argentina and making history as the first African team to reach the quarter-finals, Cameroon’s story is one of resilience, brilliance, and pure football magic. Facing England in a gripping quarter-final showdown against stars like Paul Gascoigne and Gary Lineker, the Indomitable Lions captivated the world in one of the World Cup’s greatest underdog stories. If you enjoyed the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. 00:00 Introduction and Initial Setup 00:19 Chaos and Preparation for the World Cup 01:25 Cameroon's Opening Game Against Argentina 02:45 Diego Maradona's Challenges 04:56 Cameroon's Tactical Adjustments 07:35 FIFA's New Rules and Refereeing Challenges 11:35 Cameroon's Historic Victory Over Argentina 15:04 Advancing Through the Group Stage 20:41 Facing Colombia in the Knockout Stage 23:39 Cliffhanger: Preparing to Face England 24:32 England's Quarter-Final Prospects 25:25 Scouting Cameroon: Underestimations and Realities 27:32 Tunnel Tensions and Early Game Dynamics 29:37 Cameroon's Tactical Surprises 33:46 England's Tactical Adjustments 40:54 Cameroon's Legacy and African Football Challenges 50:07 Concluding Thoughts on Cameroon 1990 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week on It Was What It Was, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson look back at one of the most iconic footballing stories of all time: Cameroon’s 1990 World Cup. Jonathan and Rob look at the chaotic preparations behind Cameroon's campaign, discussing last-minute squad upheaval, internal conflicts between teammates, and the unexpected recall of a man who would become a legend: Roger Milla. In the build up to the tournament's opening game against defending champions Argentina, there were turbulent training camps, political interferences, and a complete lack of confidence in the squad. That would all change in the summer to come... Join us on Friday for Part Two. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. 00:00 Pre-Game Nerves and Disorganization 01:02 Introduction to the 1990 Cameroon Team 01:25 Historical Context of African Teams in the World Cup 02:26 The Dramatic Campaign of Cameroon 1990 04:40 The Goalkeeper Dilemma 07:25 African Football's Struggles and Triumphs 14:37 Colonial Impact on African Football 17:44 Cameroon's Chaotic Road to the World Cup 24:09 African Players in European Football 24:58 Cameroon's Discontent in the 1990s 26:02 The Build-Up to the 1990 World Cup 31:43 Roger Milla's Unexpected Return 40:07 Goalkeeper Rivalries and Team Dynamics 43:33 Pre-Match Chaos and Last-Minute Changes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by author James Montague to discuss his new book 'Engulfed' - exploring Saudi Arabia's massive investments in sport. James gives unique insights on the history of Saudi football, the Vision 2030 project, and how Newcastle United's takeover fits into the larger picture. You'll find out how strategic use of 'soft power' has transformed Saudi Arabia's global image through sport. The trio examine the rich football culture in Saudi Arabia, the country's evolving social landscape, and the geopolitics influencing these changes. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. 00:00 Introduction 00:17 James Montague's Early Works and Reviews 01:28 Re-release and Sequel: Engulfed 01:59 Saudi Arabia's Emergence in Sports 03:26 Sports Washing and Soft Power 06:47 Historical Context and Saudi Investments 11:10 Mohammad bin Salman's Rise to Power 23:57 The Khashoggi Incident and Its Aftermath 30:13 Saudi Arabia's Football Culture 31:24 Challenges of Covering Saudi Arabia 33:52 Women in Saudi Football 35:15 Jimmy Hill's Influence on Saudi Football 40:33 David Icke's Saudi Adventure 46:10 Vision 2030 and Saudi Football Investments 52:26 Neom's Football Ambitions 57:34 Conclusion and Book Promotion Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. It's the final installment of our three-part series exploring the rise and fall of the American Soccer League. Jonathan and Rob dive into internal conflicts within the ASL, the 1929 Wall Street crash, and how its devastating effects exposed the vulnerabilities of the fledgling league. But all is not lost - with another significant attempt to establish professional soccer in the U.S.... If you’re enjoying the podcast, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. 00:00 Introduction to the Series and Bela Gutmann's Influence 01:13 The Rise of the American Soccer League (ASL) 01:51 Innovations and Controversies in American Soccer 06:23 Financial Growth and International Tensions 08:17 The Playoff System and League Complications 10:53 The Struggles of Smaller Franchises 15:06 The Breakaway and Formation of the Eastern Soccer League 17:31 Chaos and Competition Between Leagues 22:24 The Soccer War and Its Impact 23:57 The Decline of the American Soccer League 25:27 The Wall Street Crash and Its Consequences 27:20 The Struggles of Key Figures and Teams 29:36 The Final Collapse of the ASL 34:25 Analysing the Failure of Soccer in the US 38:08 Comparing US and European Sports Models 45:36 The Future of Soccer in the US 49:17 Conclusion and What's Next Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In today's It Was What It Was, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson continue to explore the fascinating story of soccer in the United States. Highlighting the pivotal role of immigrant communities in the sport's development, the episode also examines key figures like Bela Gutmann and the significant tours by foreign teams that attracted huge crowds. Join us for the conclusion of this three-part series on Tuesday. 00:00 Introduction to Bela Gutmann's New York Era 00:51 The Pre-History of American Soccer 01:36 Challenges in Establishing Soccer in the U.S. 02:26 The First Professional Soccer League 04:24 Financial Struggles and League Dynamics 07:16 Formation and Early Years of the American Soccer League 20:53 Innovations and Comparisons with Other Sports 24:19 College Football's Dominance and Soccer's Struggles 25:39 The Role of Universities in American Sports 26:14 Challenges in Early American Soccer 26:53 The Rise of the New York Giants 27:44 Fall River Marksmen's Dominance 28:25 Economic Struggles and Soccer's Impact 29:29 The League's Early Successes and Challenges 30:14 Expansion and New Teams 31:13 Player Transfers and Immigration Issues 33:19 The American Menace and Scottish Football 34:49 International Influence and Jewish Tours 41:07 The Impact of Jewish Players and Fans 44:23 The Maccabees and Tactical Evolution 47:49 The League's Growing Popularity and Issues 50:32 Concluding Thoughts and Future Outlook Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of It Was What It Was, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson dive into the early history of soccer in the United States. They look at efforts to establish professional leagues, the influence of immigrant communities, and the geographic and cultural factors that made it difficult for football to gain a foothold - compared to rival American sports. This episode is the first of a three-part series. Join us on Friday as the story continues! If you’re enjoying the podcast, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Chapters: 00:00 Introduction to American Soccer 01:08 Early History of Soccer in the USA 02:00 Challenges and Attempts to Establish Soccer 02:38 Soccer's Struggle for Popularity 06:06 The Role of Universities in American Football 17:16 Immigrant Influence on American Soccer 17:43 Regional Hotbeds of Soccer 24:18 Formation of Early Soccer Leagues 27:43 The Rise of Fall River and Early American Football 28:31 Economic Challenges and League Suspensions 29:18 Comparing Football Cultures: UK vs. US 33:11 Baseball's Influence on Early American Soccer 38:53 The Birth of the US Football Association 41:36 Challenges and Growth of Early US Soccer 46:52 Bethlehem Steel and the Industrial Influence 51:01 The Challenge Cup and Regional Rivalries 52:09 Concluding Thoughts and Future Prospects Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. With Liverpool and Newcastle set to battle for the first major trophy of the English domestic season on Sunday, we’re taking a journey through some of the greatest League Cup finals of all time. Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper each share three of their favourite finals - games filled with drama, controversy, and unforgettable moments that have defined the competition. Have we missed any of your favourites? Get in touch with @ItWasPod On Friday we have a special episode featuring David Corner, reflecting on Sunderland’s heartbreaking defeat in 1985. If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. Mikel Arteta’s transformation of Arsenal, Unai Emery’s tactical mastery, Xabi Alonso’s meteoric rise at Bayer Leverkusen, and Andoni Iraola’s fearless pressing at AFC Bournemouth all highlight a remarkable trend: A new wave of coaches shaping the modern game, many of them from the Basque Country. But why does this small region produce so many elite managers? Is it the coaching philosophy, the deep footballing culture, or something ingrained in the Basque identity? This is the story of how a new generation of Basque coaches are redefining football. If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. This week - we discuss the rise of Basque coaching. But we begin not in Bilbao or San Sebastián, but with a Catalan: Pep Guardiola. After revolutionising football with Barcelona, dominating in Germany with Bayern, and redefining the Premier League with Manchester City, Guardiola has become the defining coach of his era. But after a turbulent season at City, questions are emerging: Is this the beginning of the end for his football? Have opponents finally caught up with his ideas? Or does he have another reinvention left? This is the story of how Guardiola reshaped the modern game—and what comes next. Part two, on the Basque coaching revolution, will be released on Friday. If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. This is the story of a new dawn - where one national team took full control of their destiny, cementing a legacy that continues to shape football today. Following their World Cup triumph (in our last part), the U.S. Women's side entered a new era of independence and power - and with it came major shifts. Coach Tony DiCicco became a casualty of the team’s growing influence, making way for fresh leadership and a transformed vision. But tensions were surfacing behind the scenes, with a showdown between star player Brandi Chastain and new coach April Heinrichs... If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.. Approaching the end of the millennium, the U.S. women’s national team had already won a World Cup and Olympic gold, but they were still fighting for mainstream recognition. That all changed when they took centre stage at the 1999 Women’s World Cup. With 90,000 fans packing the Rose Bowl and millions watching around the world, the final against China became a defining moment - not just for the U.S. team, but for women’s football as a whole. Brandi Chastain’s iconic penalty, the sold-out stadiums, and the sheer spectacle of the tournament proved that women’s football wasn’t just growing - it had arrived. This is the story of how the 1999 World Cup reshaped the sport forever. If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.. Despite not playing their first professional match until 1985, the U.S. Women won the inaugural World Cup in 1991. But even as champions, they faced inequality—most notably at the 1996 Olympics, where they were only promised pay if they won gold, while the men earned bonuses for any medal. Tennis icon Billie Jean King stepped in to fight for change. This is the story of how the U.S. women’s team fought for more than just trophies. Part two, covering the iconic 1999 Women’s World Cup, is released on Tuesday. And if you missed our intro episode with USA legend Carli Lloyd earlier this week, go back and check it out. If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In our new mini-series, we begin the journey of how women’s football in the U.S. rose to global dominance. And who better to start with than Carli Lloyd - one of the game’s greatest competitors and a key figure in that evolution? From the early struggles for recognition to back-to-back World Cup triumphs, Lloyd’s career mirrors the relentless fight for respect and progress in the women’s game. She takes us inside the mindset that made her a two-time World Cup winner, an Olympic gold medallist, and the architect of one of the most iconic performances in women’s football history - her stunning hat-trick in the 2015 World Cup final. Thank you for joining us. If you enjoy the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this final chapter of our series, we complete the journey that began with Gary Neville reflecting on the legacy of the Busby Babes. We explored who they were before the 1958 Munich Air Disaster, the tragic day itself, and now, we turn to the aftermath: How Manchester United rose again. Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take you through the incredible story of resilience and redemption. After recovering from his own life-threatening injuries, Sir Matt Busby rebuilt his beloved club, guiding them from devastation to glory. With the emergence of new stars like George Best and the leadership of Bobby Charlton, United’s revival culminated in their crowning moment in 1968, when they became the first English club to lift the European Cup - just a decade after their darkest day. Thank you for joining us. If you’ve enjoyed the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In last week’s episode, we told the story of the rise of the Busby Babes, their brilliance, and their final match before tragedy struck. Today, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take you through the darkest day in Manchester United’s history: 6 February 1958. At Munich-Riem Airport, United’s flight stopped to refuel on its way home from Belgrade. After two failed take-off attempts, the third ended in disaster. The crash claimed 23 lives, including eight of Manchester United’s finest players. Duncan Edwards fought for survival but died 15 days later. Manager Sir Matt Busby was left critically injured - the club’s future uncertain. In this episode, Jonathan and Rob reconstruct the events of that fateful day - and explore the immediate aftermath; the heartbreak, the shock, and how Manchester United Football Club somehow carried on. On Friday, we will have the final part: How Sir Matt Busby’s Manchester United rose again. If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. Thank you for listening. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Following Gary Neville’s tribute to the triumph and tragedy of the Busby Babes on the anniversary week of the Munich Air Disaster, we begin a three-part series on how the tragedy shaped the future of Manchester United. In Part One, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore who the Busby Babes were, how the term came to be, and how Sir Matt Busby built his legendary team. They discuss the club’s pioneering youth system, Bobby Charlton’s journey to becoming a United supporter, and the importance of developing young talent. Among them was Duncan Edwards, regarded as one of England’s greatest footballers at the time, whose life was tragically cut short in 1958. The episode closes with the team’s final match before the fateful Munich Air Disaster. Next week, It Was What It Was presents a special episode focusing on the Munich Air Disaster, its immediate aftermath, and how Matt Busby’s rebuilt side laid the foundation for the Manchester United we know today. If you're enjoying It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week former Manchester United captain Gary Neville joins us to look back on one of the most momentous and tragic events in football history: The Munich air disaster of 1958. Neville discusses the lasting significance of the tragedy - and how Sir Matt Busby rebuilt the club, leading them to European Cup glory just a decade after its darkest day. Gary shares stories with Jonathan and Rob - including how he was raised to honour the Busby Babes as a young fan and as a player - and how their legacy helped shape the modern Manchester United. Later this week, we’ll bring you the first instalment of our mini-series on the disaster, exploring who the Busby Babes were before that fateful night. If you're enjoying It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.