Youth Culture

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this first part of a two-part special on football hooliganism, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by special guest Cass Pennant - former West Ham United Inter City Firm member who later became an author and film producer. They discuss director Ian Stuttard (known as “Butch”) and his 1985 groundbreaking documentary 'Hooligan', which challenged the stereotype of hooligans. Cass explains how Stuttard earned access by spending months with the ICF without a camera, building trust, and later filming from inside the action. The episode also covers the Thatcher-era context, the film’s controversial release and its wider impact on how 'firms' were understood. We finish the episode with Cass reflecting on Stuttard’s wider documentary career, their later partnership in a production company, and Stuttard’s lasting legacy. Join us next week for the history of football hooliganism. You can listen to this episode ad-free over on our Patreon - Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was. You will also get access to our World Cup countdown, magazine retrospectives and bonus episodes as well as a monthly Q&A with Rob and Jonathan. 00:38 Introducing Cass Pennant and the Documentary 03:21 How Ian Stuttard Got Access to the ICF 11:08 Trust Test: A Year With No Camera 15:28 1985 Context: Thatcher’s Britain, Youth Culture, and Misread ‘Casuals’ 24:19 Inside the Footage: Street Fighting, Early Video Cameras, and Codes of Conduct 26:23 Butch’s War-Correspondent Mindset 33:22 Back in the Studio: How ‘Hooligan’ Got Its Unfiltered Authenticity 34:02 Pre-Broadcast Panic: Calls to Ban the Film & Fears of Copycats 40:18 From Gangs to ‘Firms’ 45:33 Inside Whitehall: Giving Evidence to the Popplewell Inquiry 54:59 Why It Faded: Fans Wanting Out, Politics, Policing & the Premier League Era 58:42 Stuttard's Legacy: Funeral Reflections, Final Bucket List Match & Lasting Impact Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The lads are back and are joined by Saul Wilks of Welsh independent fashion label Creu Clothing. Saul talks about seeing boys at his hometown club wearing his jackets, how Newport went bust in 1988 and then came back to rise up back into the football league and Huw Jenkins as Newport Chairman. The boys discuss the importance of clothing and football as a youth culture, Saul’s journey into DJ’ing and playing Glastonbury, New York nightclubs and the boys go down a UFO rabbit hole plus much much...